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he will be an ATG, even if he loses to hatton. Depending on what happens in his next fights will be where he stands on the list. To think otherwise is just hating on the guy
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Definitely. Pacman is a top 20 of all time. He is already a future hall of famer upon his retirment. He defied the odds in winning in lots of different wieght devisions. So far, he is a very rare fighter who keeps on improving every fight.Comment
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By Cliff Rold
Manny Pacquiao:
Lineal World Flyweight/112 lb. champion (1998-99); World Featherweight/126 lb. champion (2003-2005); World Jr. Lightweight/130 lb. champion (2008); additional alphabelts at 112, 122, &130 lbs.
..."Even granting that a large part of Pacquiao’s incredibly dominant win over De La Hoya was based on Oscar being past his best, it was still remarkable by way of style. It was mastery of a legendary type and Pacquiao is indeed a living legend at this point. His evolution from a one handed power puncher early in his career to the complete machine he’s become is a credit to Freddie Roach and a story certain to be long for Boxing lore. Not bad for a once-late replacement opponent for Lehlo Ledwaba. Think of some of the most notable former Flyweight champions…of Wilde, Canto, LaBarba, Harada…none can say they ever rode the scale to the World Featherweight title (Harada came close), the World Jr. Lightweight title (LaBarba came close), and then steamrolled a former Welterweight king (none tried). The top three men in these contemporary ratings all represent greatness, historical greatness, of some special kinds. None have done more than this man across so wide a chasm. When the old-timers say it’s not like it used to be, just smile. In some cases, it might be better. Even if the now logical Pacquiao-Floyd Mayweather bout never occurs, a Pacquiao win over World Jr. Welterweight champion Ricky Hatton in 2009 would make him the first to lay real claim as a four-division lineal World Champion in history and put to rest any questions of just who has been the fighter of this decade."
I think it`s the 130 pound lineal and alpha belt he won from JMM2.
By the way, is there an official ATG list? I think one should show it here if there is, or make one. How can one say "not even in the top 100" when that list doesn`t even exist, only in the minds of people?Last edited by Thwf; 02-23-2009, 06:28 AM.Comment
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[img]http://www.v8guy.com/humor/English_Mother****er_Do_You_Speak_It.jpg[/img]
After you wipe some of that blood off your vagina, you should re-read what I wrote.
Titles at
112(Original 8 weight class)
122
126(Barrera was the linear and Ring Champion, original 8 weight class)
130
135(Original 8 weight class, beat the current lineal champ)
No other fighter in the history of Boxing has won a title at Feather and Flyweight let alone Flyweight,Feather,Lightweight. It's hard to say where Manny ranks right now but if he keeps winning he will go down as one of the best ever no doubt.Comment
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Do you even realise that Harry Greb beat 18 champions in a time of eight divisions and only one champion in each division at a time? Many of those fighters were HOF'ers also, many of them. He was also the only fighter to ever beat Gene Tunney, the legendary HW champion. He won 305 fights and only lost eight.
Eder Jofre is generally considered the greatest BW who ever fought. He only ever lost twice, both to the same fighter, the legendary 'Fighting' Harada, the greatest fighter to come out of Japan. Both of these fights were held in Japan, the first was considered a terrible home-town verdict and the second could have gone either way. Jofre's record ended at 72-2-4. He avenged all his draws also. He retired after the last loss to Harada but made a comeback winning the FW championship as well.
He beat such amazing fighters as Jose Legra, Vincente Saldivar, Jose Medel, Johnny Caldwell, Ernesto Miranda, Eloy Sanchez, Caraballo, Aoki, Rollo among many, many others.
Saddler......You know what? Why don't you tell us why you think he should be above these guys eh? Run down why his record is better than these guys you've pointed out.
Don't forget something though. Today, we have four titles in each division. Back when those guys were fighting, there was one champion. If you won the title, it is because you beat the main guy, so saying Manny was a lightweight champion because he beat Diaz is not comparable to the titles these guys won. If he was fighting in the same era beating Diaz would not have won him the title, it would have been just a normal win over a contender, not a title win at all. Think about that. Posting up the stats like "He won titles in five divisions and that means he is better" is just wrong. You cannot compare the stats of different era's like that as guys that won different divisional titles back in the older era's would have done easily as well if not better in today's era of millions of titles in each division and the picking and choosing of the weakest title holder.
The funny thing that so many don't realise now is that in the older era's (70's, 60's, 50's etc etc) beating the top contenders of the day would be exactly the same as winning a title in today's divisions.
A great contender like Hector Thompson (if you've never heard of him, look him up. An amazing fighter who never won a title but was one of the best contenders of his times in the lightweight and JWW divisions.) would absolutely be a multiple title holder today. He couldn't beat Roberto Duran or Antonio Cervantes for his title shots but he beat all the other contenders and many great, great fighters. Those great fighters and top contenders that he beat would have held any of the titles today, which he would have then won. Title wins today are not a way of judging whether a fighter is better or not sadly.Last edited by BennyST; 02-23-2009, 06:39 AM.Comment
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co-sign. diaz was never a lineal champ at lightweight. please get your facts correct.
this might help.
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