The Top 20 Junior Middleweights of All-Time

[crold1]

I dont see why Julian Jackson shouldnt be rated higher than Nino. Nino was the lineal champ..which certainly means something...but most of his career was at Middleweight, and other than his wins over Sandro he didnt do much at 154.

Jackson on the other hand hand has a KO win over the number 1 rated Light Middleweight ever very near his prime. Norris won a title less than a year later, I believe. and the early 90s version of Norris was way better than the later 90s version.
not to mention his win over In Chul Baek is very underrated, as Baek won a title at 168 and beat legitimately good competition there.
The Buster Drayton win is pretty good too, and the only guy he lost to at 154 was McCallum. and a loss to McCallum is less embaressing than a loss to Kim, imo.

The Kim loss was a robbery; doesn't factor in the #'s but worth noting.

[Steak]

The Kim loss was a robbery; doesn't factor in the #'s but worth noting.

I thought it was Little who was robbed against Kim...or did it happen both times?

in that case, Kim has pretty much no stand out wins, and built his career off of Korean hometown decisions.

either way, I think I would still have Julian Jackson ahead of Nino.
Baek>Kim
Norris>Sandro

[crold1]

I thought it was Little who was robbed against Kim...or did it happen both times?

in that case, Kim has pretty much no stand out wins, and built his career off of Korean hometown decisions.

either way, I think I would still have Julian Jackson ahead of Nino.
Baek>Kim
Norris>Sandro

Nino fought between the two divisions for most of his career before Griffith and won his first sixty plus. He was a great fighter.

And Kim wasn't bad at all. He just got the benefit of the doubt at home and not abroad. Kim v. Baek is not a testable hypothesis nor is Mazzinghi-Norris (which would have been a good fight; Mazzinghi was a good fighter).

[joseph5620]

No shout out for McCallum at #1? I think he beats Norris and has better name quality at that weight, and would have been a terrific fight with Hearns who's top names might be more glittery, but not quite as prime. Its arguable, but McCallum HAS to rank right up there in my opinion.

I agree with Jab on this.

[joseph5620]

With all due respect, what has Wright or Kalule done to be ranked higher than McCallum in your opinion?

I have to also add that McCallum knocked out Julian Jackson. A fighter who knocked Norris cold in 2 rounds. Norris made no effort to rematch Jackson after that.

[crold1]

I have to also add that McCallum knocked out Julian Jackson. A fighter who knocked Norris cold in 2 rounds. Norris made no effort to rematch Jackson after that.

Not true. The rematch was talked about but a couple things got in the way. Jackson was signed to King, had retina issues etc...when Norris signed with King later it was with an eye towards an all Middles but Roy tourney with Jackson-Norris as the high dollar end. Then Brown stopped Norris and Jackson was stopped by McClellan to effectively end his prime in the same year and it just went away.

And McCallum got full credit for the Jackson win here.

[Steak]

Nino fought between the two divisions for most of his career before Griffith and won his first sixty plus. He was a great fighter.

And Kim wasn't bad at all. He just got the benefit of the doubt at home and not abroad. Kim v. Baek is not a testable hypothesis nor is Mazzinghi-Norris (which would have been a good fight; Mazzinghi was a good fighter).

Kim vs Baek and Sandro vs. Norris is a question mark as to who would have won. but based on their records, Norris clearly is the more accomplished fighter than Sandro M., and personally I would say that Baek was more accomplished than Kim, because he had good wins over Obeljemas and Pal Park at 168lbs, and both of them were good fighters. meanwhile Kim didnt have that great of wins if you dont count his robbery ones.

[crold1]

Kim vs Baek and Sandro vs. Norris is a question mark as to who would have won. but based on their records, Norris clearly is the more accomplished fighter than Sandro M., and personally I would say that Baek was more accomplished than Kim, because he had good wins over Obeljemas and Pal Park at 168lbs, and both of them were good fighters. meanwhile Kim didnt have that great of wins if you dont count his robbery ones.

Baek did have those wins at 68 and was a good fighter; I counted him as a bonus points win for Jackson because of what he did there.

[joseph5620]

Not true. The rematch was talked about but a couple things got in the way. Jackson was signed to King, had retina issues etc...when Norris signed with King later it was with an eye towards an all Middles but Roy tourney with Jackson-Norris as the high dollar end. Then Brown stopped Norris and Jackson was stopped by McClellan to effectively end his prime in the same year and it just went away.

And McCallum got full credit for the Jackson win here.

Not true. The rematch was talked about but a couple things got in the way. Jackson was signed to King, had retina issues etc...when Norris signed with King later it was with an eye towards an all Middles but Roy tourney with Jackson-Norris as the high dollar end. Then Brown stopped Norris and Jackson was stopped by McClellan to effectively end his prime in the same year and it just went away.

And McCallum got full credit for the Jackson win here.

That isn't true at all. Norris went on to win many more fights and a titles after the loss to Brown, Norris rematched Brown and won every round. He had 13 fights after the Brown loss including a KO over Vincent Pettway and an easy win over Paul Vaden. His only losses during that span were DQ losses to Luis Santana. No way was his prime "over" after the Brown loss. The fight could have happened if he wanted it.

[crold1]

That isn't true at all. Norris went on to win many more fights and a titles after the loss to Brown, Norris rematched Brown and won every round. He had 13 fights after the Brown loss including a KO over Vincent Pettway and an easy win over Paul Vaden. His only losses during that span were DQ losses to Luis Santana. No way was his prime "over" after the Brown loss. The fight could have happened if he wanted it.

1) You didn't read the sentence correctly. Slow down. Jackson's prime was effectively over in 93; just Jackson. The mutual losses in part killed off what was a path designed to possibly lead them towards each other. King was building a Middle tourney, or so he kept claiming as early as Norris's fights with Blocker and Waters. Then Jackson got KO'd...then Norris. Never came together.

2) When could it have happened solely because Norris wanted it (and not saying he went out of his way for it)? Did King make a significant offer that Norris turned down? Or is this another magic assertion about the special power fighters have to make any fight, any time? To get King fighters, there had to be a huge money pot (there wasn't one for that rematch) or signing with King. Norris didn't do that until 92/93 and Jackson lost to McClellan shortly after Norris joined the stable.

If Norris had turned down or avoided a rematch in any serious way, I'd think Jackson would note it. Not a word: http://www.thesweetscience.com/boxin...ulian-jackson/