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Nigel Benn: "Calzaghe Beats Me, Hagler, Hearns, Sugar"

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  • Originally posted by donray View Post
    Willie Monroe – Willie “The Worm” was one of the best Philadelphia had to offer, at a time when the Philly professional circuit was a very tough one. Monroe was a slick boxer and a world ranked contender with a record of 32-3-1 when he first met Marvelous Marvin, and he eked out a decision over the less experienced fighter. Hagler, while disheartened, came back and proved his superiority over The Worm with a twelfth round technical knockout win and then an impressive second round knockout in ’77.

    Eugene Hart - This guy was a natural southpaw, but he fought from an orthodox stance, and so he developed a wicked left hook. Another of Philly’s finest, and a damn hard hitter. A world ranked contender, Hart hit Hagler with some real bombs in their fight, although Marvin never budged. He later claimed Hart hit him the hardest of all. And few would argue – Hart was on The Ring magazine’s list of one hundred greatest punchers.

    Bennie Briscoe – Yet another Philly fighter, Briscoe was the best of the bunch. Generally regarded as being one of the best never to win a title, Briscoe was a real tough nut with a superb jab and a Joe Frazier-type attrition style. Like Hart, he appeared on The Ring magazine’s list of one hundred greatest punchers.

    Honourable mention – Mike Colbert (suffered several fractures to his jaw), Kevin Finnegan (required sixty stitches), Norberto Cabrera, Marcus Geraldo.

    Hagler never really lost at his best at all; he only ever lost controversially. Against Monroe he had bronchitis. He avenged that loss with two knockout wins. Against Bobby Watts, the verdict was thought to have been a hometown decision. Watts was blown away in the rematch. Many observers felt the well-past-prime Hagler deserved the nod against Leonard. His draw with Antuofermo was also considered a bogus decision, but the man was stopped in a rematch. The only other blotch left is that draw against Olympic silver medalist Sugar Ray Seales - but then again, this draw was suffered back in the ring blooding days when Hagler had not fully matured. Hagler smashed him in one round as payback.

    A statistical analysis:

    62-3-2 (52)

    Undisputed middleweight champion of the world from 1980 to 1987. Hagler defended the lineal middleweight title twelve times successfully, before losing on a close decision to Ray Leonard.

    Hagler was unbeaten in his last thirty seven fights before facing Ray Leonard, or eleven years. He avenged his first two losses more than once, and avenged his two draws, all with knockout wins.

    Hagler's title opponents and their records at the time of the fight:

    Vito Antuofermo 45-3-1
    Alan Minter 38-6-0
    Fulgencio Obelmejias 30-0-0
    Mustafa Hamsho 31-2-2
    William Lee 22-2-0
    Tony Sibson 47-3-1
    Wilford Scypion 26-3-0
    Roberto Duran 77-4-0
    Juan Domingo Roldan 52-2-2
    Thomas Hearns 40-1-0
    John Mugabi 25-0
    Ray Leonard 33-1-0

    Most impressive winning streaks: 17-0 (14), 20-0 (18; ) , 16-0 (14)
    Longest knockout streak: 10
    Times knocked down: 1
    Other titles held: Massachusetts middleweight title
    Record in world title fights: 13-1-1 (12)

    Hagler's total title opponents' record at the time of the fight: 444-25-6 (93.1% win rate)

    Hall of famers fought: Roberto Duran, Ray Leonard (2)

    Unbeaten fighters fought: Terry Ryan (0-0-0), Sonny Williams (0-0-0), Dornell Wigfall (8-0-0), Cove Green (4-0-0), John Mugabi (25-0-0), Sugar Ray Seales (21-0-0), Johnny Baldwin (29-0-0), Ray Phillips (11-0-0), Mike Colbert (23-0-0), Fulgencio Obelmejias (30-0-0)

    Among Hagler's wins were three multi-weight champions, five middleweight champions and five punchers who appeared in The Ring Magazine's 100 Greatest Punchers of All Time.

    Marvin Hagler was rated at #35 in The Ring Magazine's 100 Greatest Punchers of All Time, and is generally regarded as one of the top three middleweights of all time. He was effectively the best middleweight in the world for ten years – he was the champion for seven of those, but was the number one contender for three years before he won the title. And we know he was better than Valdez, Corro, Antuofermo and Minter.

    Marvelous Marvin also looks very impressive on film. He could do everything. To me, he was the most complete fighter ever. Nobody can name a single attribute that Hagler didn't have or didn't perform well. He could box or brawl out of either stance, retreat or advance, move or swarm. He had perfect poise and balance, and hit with an accuracy equalled only by Joe Louis. He had crunching power in each hand, and had deceptively fast hands. With long arms, bulging muscles and shavenhead, Marvin Hagler was an imposing figure, and was always relaxed and cool under pressure. He was schooled in the old school arts of feinting, parrying, blocking, slipping and ducking, and could release stunning combinations like a box of fireworks with excellent technique. Hagler trained like no other middleweight before or after him, and made sure he was in top shape for every fight. Determined and courageous, Hagler would step into the ring with the most devastating punchers - Hearns, Mugabi, Hart, Scypion, Leonard, Duran, Briscoe... With the footwork of Ali and the boxing skills of Gene Tunney, Hagler made mincemeat of any come-forward slugger, and on his best day, could outbox the best boxers. It is truly amazing, to see Hagler on film calmly but savagely dismantling his opponents.

    After 1983, he started to become more of a swarmer, in my opinion, and some of his boxing skills seemed eroded. The Hagler from ‘77-‘82 was near unbeatable, he was a slick boxer with that iron chin and an airtight defence. Hagler's defence is one of the most underrated I've seen - he'd slip jabs with a twist of his hips, block body shots with his elbows, duck under his opponents punches to get inside. He always had his hands up and was a great judge of distance - he'd come in with that awesome double jab, and before the guy has even thought about getting off a counter punch, Hagler's out of range again, always with his hands high. Coupled with that iron chin, the prime Hagler was impossible to knock out.

    Marvelous Marvin possessed one of the most effective jabs the game as seen. Against a guy like Hamsho, who stalked his opponent and swarmed over them, Hagler could approach the fight in a workman-like manner and methodically take his man apart with stiff right hand leads. Even in attack mode, like against Minter, he would slip jabs with his excellent head movement and pump the jab in his opponent's face with unerring accuracy.

    Hagler showed that when the going got tough, he could get even tougher. If the fight started going wrong, Hagler would start to go all-out to end the matter. Against Duran, when he was behind on the cards, Hagler stepped up the pace and made sure the judges knew who to score the fight for. Against Hamsho in their second outing, where the challenger blatantly butted Hagler at least twice, the champion decided he would have no more of it, and proceeded to finish the fight in the same round. Also against Hearns, when referee Richard Steele called time to check Hagler's cut, he stepped up the pace and knocked Hearns out because he thought the fight was in danger of being stopped.

    Handspeed, footspeed, footwork, power, combinations, stamina, infighting, boxing, technique, defense, chin, accuracy, timing, balance, strength, heart, determination, toughness, body punching, switch-hitting, reach, professionalism... Name what you like, I'll bet Marvin Hagler had it in spades.

    Marvelous Marvin Hagler was perhaps the greatest and most dominant champion within his weight class that the history of boxing has ever seen. On pure fighting prowess, there is nobody I've ever seen that can match Hagler's all-round ability - not even the likes of Robinson, Duran, Pep or Armstrong.
    Donray i have to say some of those posts you just done are some of the best i've ever seen. On any forum have some rep on me, i would of loved to have seen Marvin Hagler fight Mike McCallum. I think Mike McCallum was just as good of an all round fighter as Marvin Hagler.

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    • Id pick Calzaghe over Hagler if they fought in the late 80's.

      Hagler would probably get in more power shots, but Calzaghe would win on sheer volume with a comfortable UD.

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      • Originally posted by Burning Desire View Post
        Donray i have to say some of those posts you just done are some of the best i've ever seen. On any forum have some rep on me, i would of loved to have seen Marvin Hagler fight Mike McCallum. I think Mike McCallum was just as good of an all round fighter as Marvin Hagler.
        Thanks for the compliment and you are right mccallum was an awesome complete fighter as well, and that would have been a great one, mcallums performance against toney although being well past his prime was superb and says a alot about how great mccallum was. But what leads me to believe that hagler would have beaten him was his performance against curry, who was actually beating mccallum fairly convincingly until mccallum caught him with that half hook uppercut that put curry down for the count, curry was very good but he is no hagler, I like hagler in that one also but it would have been fun to watch.
        Last edited by donray; 02-07-2009, 02:23 PM.

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        • Originally posted by Testdead View Post
          Lets all agree Calzaghe is better than Hops, Jones and Toney.
          With all due respect, not even close.

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          • Originally posted by Dynamite Kid View Post
            Calzaghe throws wide punches though when he gets into exchanges, and that is why he has been knocked down so many times and nailed with good shots. I dont know if he would outboxed Hagler, its possible, but i dont know how Joe would cope fighting another Southpaw.

            There is a point in Kessler fight where he comes foward flurrying with a combo of wide looping shots/slaps and Kessler nails him with an uppercut. Im supprised he never get knocked out against Mitchell TBH, because their is a point in the Mitchell fight where he completely squares up and starts swinging like a rusty gate.

            Calzaghe gets hit too cleanly for me to favour him to beat most elite fighters in their prime.
            You make good points, but your Kessler illustration also illustrates Calzaghe's tactical brain and ability to adjust, because Calzaghe took quite a lot of hard uppercuts from Kessler in the early rounds, then changed his tactics in round 5, and never got hit cleanly by an uppercut again. Because of that ability to adjust, I still think it would be a pick 'em fight if he'd fought Hagler - not in a P4P sense - Hagler was certainly better P4P, but taking into account the size and weight discrepancy.

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            • Originally posted by Burning Desire View Post
              Donray i have to say some of those posts you just done are some of the best i've ever seen.
              I agree - he should be a professional boxing writer!

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              • Originally posted by cush3 View Post
                I really don't think so remember Calzaghe is a 12 round fighter and Hagler,Hearns,and Leonard were 15 round fighters,plus none of them are slappers like Calzaghe.They were real fighters and fought real fighters not people past their prime.
                Dumb post. Look, Calzaghe's hands were smashed up. This is a common knowledge. In my opinion, it's very impressive how he adapted to his injuries and adjusted his style accordingly -- this is extremely difficult to do and remain successful and undefeated -- and not only that, he also finished with 32 T/KO's to his name.

                You seem to want to focus on the negative points, though. Calzaghe was actually not a "12 round fighter" at all, was he? In the early days, he rarely went past the first couple of rounds.

                Only 13 of 46 fights went 12 rounds.
                10 fights ended in the first round.
                8 fights ended in the second round.
                Many other fights ended early.

                So there you go.

                When Calzaghe fought Eubank, he put him down within 30 seconds. Even Nigel Benn who fought Eubank twice couldn't do that, and Benn was known as a fighter with fearsome power. So while you might think he slapped and had no power, Eubank himself said it was the hardest he was ever hit in his career. No joke. I'm not saying Calzaghe has Tyson-like power, but he punched hard enough to make any opponent be respectful of his power. If he couldn't punch properly, his opponents would have walked right through his shots.

                Please, if you are going to make hate posts, argue with FACTS, otherwise you really don't have a leg to stand on. You just end up looking ******.



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                • benn is a dumb *****

                  he aint got a clue what his talking about ...his always making ****** comments...plus he didnt fight any top class fighters really..he got lucky with iran barkley because of the 3 knock down rule...wanked it agaist steve collins pretending he twisted his ankle ....so he needs to shut the fucck up

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                  • Originally posted by hardrock d View Post
                    he aint got a clue what his talking about ...his always making ****** comments...plus he didnt fight any top class fighters really..he got lucky with iran barkley because of the 3 knock down rule...wanked it agaist steve collins pretending he twisted his ankle ....so he needs to shut the fucck up
                    Your post is so ignorant, ****** and lacking in class, it's just laughable.

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                    • Originally posted by hardrock d View Post
                      he aint got a clue what his talking about ...his always making ****** comments...plus he didnt fight any top class fighters really..he got lucky with iran barkley because of the 3 knock down rule...wanked it agaist steve collins pretending he twisted his ankle ....so he needs to shut the fucck up
                      Got lucky by knocking Iran Barkley down three times in the first round? OK...No top class fighters, so Barkley, Doug DeWitt, Robbie Sims, Chris Eubank and Gerald McClellan were **** then were they? He broke his ankle against Steve Collins its a fact. That youve called one of the most fearless and dangerous middleweights ever a dumb *****, which you would never have the balls to say to his face just confirms one thing, your the only dumb *****, *****. Benn's giving his opinion which he's not afraid to do regardless of pathetic morons like you.

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