Nigel Benn: "Calzaghe Beats Me, Hagler, Hearns, Sugar"

[znarfv_y2k8]

How is it degrading?

Damn near all great fighters (and athletes) decline. It's just the way it goes. Fighters compete at the highest level for a long time, and eventually they start to decline. That doesn't mean they ****** by then or anything. They were still better than most pro fighters out there. They had just declined from their previous high level of performance.

You can see that their reflexes were slower. Leonard's stamina wasn't the same either. He was visibly tired by the 5th or 6th round against Hagler. Manny Steward said that Leonard had the greatest stamina ever. Maybe Manny was exaggerating as he often does, but Leonard certainly had amazing stamina in the late 70s/early 80s. Sure Leonard was using his legs a lot, but he also was in the Duran rematch, and he looked very strong and didn't ever seem fatigued to me. He also finished the 15th round very strong against Duran in Montreal, after taking an absolute battering to the body. His finishes in the 13-15 rounds against Benitez and Hearns also showed his stamina. Against Hagler, you could see the difference.

yes, no problem w/ that if that is the case...in some fight yes but some u've mentioned i disagree w/ that...

[znarfv_y2k8]

yes, no problem w/ that if that is the case...in some fight yes but some u've mentioned i disagree w/ that...

...degrading in the sense that, its competitive & exciting but u made it look/sounds terrible...

[znarfv_y2k8]

How is it degrading?

Damn near all great fighters (and athletes) decline. It's just the way it goes. Fighters compete at the highest level for a long time, and eventually they start to decline. That doesn't mean they ****** by then or anything. They were still better than most pro fighters out there. They had just declined from their previous high level of performance.

You can see that their reflexes were slower. Leonard's stamina wasn't the same either. He was visibly tired by the 5th or 6th round against Hagler. Manny Steward said that Leonard had the greatest stamina ever. Maybe Manny was exaggerating as he often does, but Leonard certainly had amazing stamina in the late 70s/early 80s. Sure Leonard was using his legs a lot, but he also was in the Duran rematch, and he looked very strong and didn't ever seem fatigued to me. He also finished the 15th round very strong against Duran in Montreal, after taking an absolute battering to the body. His finishes in the 13-15 rounds against Benitez and Hearns also showed his stamina. Against Hagler, you could see the difference.

..most of their fights i have watched, analysed, & judged it fairly...u have some excuses there about the judge, but of course not to deny the age factor but we have to be honest & fair in our observation...

[znarfv_y2k8]

You can see that their reflexes were slower. Leonard's stamina wasn't the same either. He was visibly tired by the 5th or 6th round against Hagler. Manny Steward said that Leonard had the greatest stamina ever. Maybe Manny was exaggerating as he often does, but Leonard certainly had amazing stamina in the late 70s/early 80s. Sure Leonard was using his legs a lot, but he also was in the Duran rematch, and he looked very strong and didn't ever seem fatigued to me. He also finished the 15th round very strong against Duran in Montreal, after taking an absolute battering to the body. His finishes in the 13-15 rounds against Benitez and Hearns also showed his stamina. Against Hagler, you could see the difference.

Quoting that manny is exagerrating as he often does...it's also ur reaction & ur opinion & manny is entitled to do so, & his reputation is not good as urs...actually every fighter has their own style & the quality of a fight mostly depends on both style the fighter has possesed...when it comes to Hagler/Leonard fight, yes Hagler is very strong & rock solid chin...its not only w/ their age that affects their performances but also w/ the opposition they encountered likewise in the part of Leonard against Hagler...

[Thread Stealer]

...degrading in the sense that, its competitive & exciting but u made it look/sounds terrible...

It just means they have declined from their previous form. It's not to insult them. Sometimes fighters that decline from their top form can actually make more fan-friendly fights as they may be easier to hit.

[znarfv_y2k8]

It just means they have declined from their previous form. It's not to insult them. Sometimes fighters that decline from their top form can actually make more fan-friendly fights as they may be easier to hit.

..so if that is the case...cause i'm discussing here & presumed that if they are match at their prime not the old fighters they are but when the times they competitive...& i expect the argument will goes around it...

[Thread Stealer]

Quoting that manny is exagerrating as he often does...it's also ur reaction & ur opinion & manny is entitled to do so, & his reputation is not good as urs...actually every fighter has their own style & the quality of a fight mostly depends on both style the fighter has possesed...when it comes to Hagler/Leonard fight, yes Hagler is very strong & rock solid chin...its not only w/ their age that affects their performances but also w/ the opposition they encountered likewise in the part of Leonard against Hagler...

I thought about that, but the reason I see Leonard's fatigue as more of a sign of him starting to decline rather than facing a bigger opponent and using his legs more, is because of Leonard's other fights, and the fact that I didn't see Hagler land much by the time Leonard started getting tired. Using your legs is tiring, but Leonard used them a lot in New Orleans, and didn't seem tired at all through 8. And in Montreal, he fought at a grueling pace with Duran, absorbed a lot of punishment to the body, but finished very strong in the 15th. In addition, his reflexes were just slower, which is just inevitable as time goes on.

As for Hagler, I thought he peaked in the Sibson fight. He looked much easier to hit later on, mainly in the Roldan fight, and also quite a bit against Mugabi. I think Hagler had underrated defense, as his parrying ability and head movement were solid. I especially was impressed with his head movement in his "loss" to Watts. Luckily for Hagler, when he slowed down and got hit more, he had more than just boxing skills and good legs, but also the ability to slug it out and win wars that way too. With Mugabi, even though he had slowed, you still saw a little of everything. His boxing ability (mainly the jab), war in the trenches, body punching, chin, stamina, etc...

People have denegrated Leonard's achievement against Hagler because he said he saw decline in Hagler against Mugabi, but I thought it was a great achievement anyway. This is a guy who hadn't fought in 3 years, just once in 5 years, and was used to fighting smaller guys than Hagler. And Hagler was undefeated since 1976.

[znarfv_y2k8]

I thought about that, but the reason I see Leonard's fatigue as more of a sign of him starting to decline rather than facing a bigger opponent and using his legs more, is because of Leonard's other fights, and the fact that I didn't see Hagler land much by the time Leonard started getting tired. Using your legs is tiring, but Leonard used them a lot in New Orleans, and didn't seem tired at all through 8. And in Montreal, he fought at a grueling pace with Duran, absorbed a lot of punishment to the body, but finished very strong in the 15th. In addition, his reflexes were just slower, which is just inevitable as time goes on.

As for Hagler, I thought he peaked in the Sibson fight. He looked much easier to hit later on, mainly in the Roldan fight, and also quite a bit against Mugabi. I think Hagler had underrated defense, as his parrying ability and head movement were solid. I especially was impressed with his head movement in his "loss" to Watts. Luckily for Hagler, when he slowed down and got hit more, he had more than just boxing skills and good legs, but also the ability to slug it out and win wars that way too. With Mugabi, even though he had slowed, you still saw a little of everything. His boxing ability (mainly the jab), war in the trenches, body punching, chin, stamina, etc...

People have denegrated Leonard's achievement against Hagler because he said he saw decline in Hagler against Mugabi, but I thought it was a great achievement anyway. This is a guy who hadn't fought in 3 years, just once in 5 years, and was used to fighting smaller guys than Hagler. And Hagler was undefeated since 1976.

..i think if thats how u see it, its all because the effectiveness of Haglers punches & style compared to other fighters boxed by Leonard...but it doesn't mean Hagler won...

[znarfv_y2k8]

...but as how i saw it they're still in their prime, & it's a war...

[znarfv_y2k8]

...and i think nothing to pay special attention to any of their fights in the past, i believe the summation of the great round robin battles w/ each other in WW, MW, SMW by (Leonard, Hagler, Hearns & Duran) & the accomplishsments they've achieved made them legend & greats...that's why this is a consolation to Joe being link to them...