Cowardly acts in Boxing, what are they?

[totalstranga]

yeah the Butler punch on "the alien" was a str8 ***** move.

perry who is that sexy tattooed chick in your av. she is ****ing hot

[Clegg]

Benny, do you think that Oscar was just as bad when he made Hopkins fight at a catchweight? What about when Tito did the same with Roy Jones? When Pavlik did it to Hopkins? Some say that Mayweather did it to Chico.

There are many examples, just wondering how harshly you judge those involved?

[BlackHat]

I'm not sure why you don't get that it starts from the moment you think up the idea of making the fight and then agreeing on it...then signing a contract with what you want to give your fighter even greater advantages over a fighter that already has disadvantages and probably shouldn't be fighting in this particular weight and fight at this point in his career. Just because a crack-head wants his crack, doesn't mean you should give him that last dose that kills him.

So now you're saying that DLH had the disadvantage from the very start? Last time I checked from your own words that it was the mismanagement of his weight in the training camp and that DLH didn't gain weight come fight night.

Freddie had a choice because he didn't need to take this fight even if Oscar was pulling for it. I would say Freddie was just trying to teach Oscar a lesson, but I kind of doubt it.

You know boxing is a business. It's floyd's first rule right?

And yes, I do like Freddie but maybe unlike you who doesn't get that you don't have to like everything about a person, I am still ojbective. Hell, I love my brother but I disagree with some of the things he does and call him on it.
It is because I like them that it can make me confused and a bit upset on why they do it even though I can reason it...I don't agree with it.

No you are not objective.First time we had a discussion you were defending Floyd Sr. for bashing Dundee and Nacho. Then you called DLH a dead body. I might even missed a lot. And then this last post of yours we are discussing now which is not even related with the topic clearly just to bash Roach/Pac.

[BlackHat]

yeah the Butler punch on "the alien" was a str8 ***** move.

perry who is that sexy tattooed chick in your av. she is ****ing hot

It's Kat Von D, famous female tattoo artist from L.A check her out in Miami Ink/LA Ink if you have travel and Living Channel. She's hot isn't she?

[Benny Leonard]

Benny, do you think that Oscar was just as bad when he made Hopkins fight at a catchweight? What about when Tito did the same with Roy Jones? When Pavlik did it to Hopkins? Some say that Mayweather did it to Chico.

There are many examples, just wondering how harshly you judge those involved?

I'm against many things that Oscar has done, including trying to take advantage of Pac...so yeah.

Not sure if Mayweather did it with Chico. Chico was just said to have problems of his own on the outside. Floyd was said to have his own drama, but when doesn't he. Floyd wanted to the "Man" at 130 and the only way he was going to do it was by fighting Chico there so he did it. Hell, look at all the flack Floyd is getting for fighting Hatton at 147 even though it was Hatton that refused Floyd twice for a fight at 140. And it's not like Floyd shows up over 149 pounds for his fights. The other thing is, Diego was in his prime and continued on to fight at 130 a few more times over the years afterwards; he beat Casamayor there. Four months prior to the Floyd fight, Diego had taken the head of Angel Manfredy.
However, there was talk about Diego wanted to move up to lightweight but it didn't happen...the reason being was I guess, Floyd.


My point with Freddie is that he has been around this game for a long time. He is past seeing it from a Fighters standpoint and can now see through the eyes of a trainer...which makes him kind of like a Guru. Knowing what he knows and being able to see it from an outside perspective, a trainer’s perspective...and him being in the health condition he is in, which is probably why he concerns himself with Pac...I expect more from him.


It's the same with Floyd and running his mouth at 147. He claimed he was the best but didn't fight the best. Maybe the timing was bad, but if you are going to open your mouth, especially with basically bashing SRR, SRL, and Ali; you better prove it if you started it.
Of course, I also don't agree with many things Ali did either.

[Benny Leonard]

PerryDplatypus;4519979 So now you're saying that DLH had the disadvantage from the very start? Last time I checked from your own words that it was the mismanagement of his weight in the training camp and that DLH didn't gain weight come fight night.

If you go by history and what Freddie said; yeah. I even brought up before the fight the similarities with Tszyu vs. Hatton. I didn't think the weight would kill him like Jones Jr, but it was because I wasn't paying attention properly and of course, wasn't in his camp with his dietician. Who knew the guy would show up by fight time at 147.

Freddie thought Oscar had the disadvantages which is why he took the fight, especially it being at 147. At 154, I would say Oscar had the advantage. If Oscar had been in his prime, without a doubt, Oscar would have the advantages. The only way Oscar would have an advantage at that time, which many were expecting and I was somewhat favoring/hoping for his sake, was if he was able to show up healthy. If he showed up "healthy," I favored him. And if not, Tszyu vs. Hatton.

In the End, Oscar got what was coming to him.

You know boxing is a business. It's floyd's first rule right?

True, but not all people do business the same way.

Floyd agreed to everything Oscar said: Fight at 154 and fight with Reyes gloves. Not sure on the ring-size.

No you are not objective.First time we had a discussion you were defending Floyd Sr. for bashing Dundee and Nacho. Then you called DLH a dead body. I might even missed a lot. And then this last post of yours we are discussing now which is not even related with the topic clearly just to bash Roach/Pac

What was the Sr. vs. Dundee and Nacho thing; refresh my memory.

DLH and Dead-body: yeah, that's what he showed up as. Hard to deny my friend.

How isn't Roach related to the topic?

To me, it reminded me of a story about a certain General/King who was suggested (by his advisors) to attack at night since the opposition out-numbered them at least 3-1. Instead, the General/King said: NO...I will fight in the light and I won't steal my victory.

[Clegg]

I'm against many things that Oscar has done, including trying to take advantage of Pac...so yeah.

Not sure if Mayweather did it with Chico. Chico was just said to have problems of his own on the outside. Floyd was said to have his own drama, but when doesn't he. Floyd wanted to the "Man" at 130 and the only way he was going to do it was by fighting Chico there so he did it. Hell, look at all the flack Floyd is getting for fighting Hatton at 147 even though it was Hatton that refused Floyd twice for a fight at 140. And it's not like Floyd shows up over 149 pounds for his fights. The other thing is, Diego was in his prime and continued on to fight at 130 a few more times over the years afterwards; he beat Casamayor there. Four months prior to the Floyd fight, Diego had taken the head of Angel Manfredy.
However, there was talk about Diego wanted to move up to lightweight but it didn't happen...the reason being was I guess, Floyd.


My point with Freddie is that he has been around this game for a long time. He is past seeing it from a Fighters standpoint and can now see through the eyes of a trainer...which makes him kind of like a Guru. Knowing what he knows and being able to see it from an outside perspective, a trainer’s perspective...and him being in the health condition he is in, which is probably why he concerns himself with Pac...I expect more from him.

Yeah, I have never bought into the claims that Corrales was too weak at the weight.

I think Freddie is a good guy. He refused to train Wayne McCullough anymore after his health issues, even though he was cleared to fight, and didn't want Hopkins to fight Pavlik.

I think people have been overrating Roach's ability to analyze and predict things. He has had bad nights as well as good. Only a few months ago he was proved wrong regarding Hopkins-Pavlik, and I remember him saying that Steve Collins would beat Roy Jones, which is hard to imagine.

Obviously he was 100% right about Pac-DLH, but I don't think he was putting DLH's health at risk anymore than is usual in boxing. It's easy to look at things with hindsight and judge people. Before DLH-Pac, people feared for Pac's health. Before Holyfield-Valuev, people feared for Holyfield's health. Now the tune has changed in both instances.

I just think that it's a bit harsh to judge someone in hindsight when many of us had no problem with their decision at the time. Roy had already harmed his body when coming down from heavyweight, then he went down another 5lbs for the Tito fight. No one cares that Roy might have been weight-drained and got hurt because he beat Tito. DLH didn't beat Pac and so people are a lot more likely to focus on it.

[BlackHat]

If you go by history and what Freddie said; yeah. I even brought up before the fight the similarities with Tszyu vs. Hatton. I didn't think the weight would kill him like Jones Jr, but it was because I wasn't paying attention properly and of course, wasn't in his camp with his dietician. Who knew the guy would show up by fight time at 147.

Freddie thought Oscar had the disadvantages which is why he took the fight, especially it being at 147. At 154, I would say Oscar had the advantage. If Oscar had been in his prime, without a doubt, Oscar would have the advantages. The only way Oscar would have an advantage at that time, which many were expecting and I was somewhat favoring/hoping for his sake, was if he was able to show up healthy. If he showed up "healthy," I favored him. And if not, Tszyu vs. Hatton.

In the End, Oscar got what was coming to him.




True, but not all people do business the same way.

Floyd agreed to everything Oscar said: Fight at 154 and fight with Reyes gloves. Not sure on the ring-size.



What was the Sr. vs. Dundee and Nacho thing; refresh my memory.

DLH and Dead-body: yeah, that's what he showed up as. Hard to deny my friend.

How isn't Roach related to the topic? How can you be not paying attention

To me, it reminded me of a story about a certain General/King who was suggested (by his advisors) to attack at night since the opposition out-numbered them at least 3-1. Instead, the General/King said: NO...I will fight in the light and I won't steal my victory.

You're not even consistent with your replies. How can you be not paying attention all this time when you consider yourself as an objective fan, who debates with another boxing fan and even talks about fighters decades ago.

It's the same with Floyd and running his mouth at 147. He claimed he was the best but didn't fight the best. Maybe the timing was bad, but if you are going to open your mouth, especially with basically bashing SRR, SRL, and Ali; you better prove it if you started it.
Of course, I also don't agree with many things Ali did either.

You replied this to Clegg but you quoted me when I post something about retiring in his prime then you talk about health.



Yes Roach isn't related until you can find another poster here who agrees that what Roach had done making the fight with Oscar and instructing Pac to finish DLH was a cowardly act.

[Benny Leonard]

Yeah, I have never bought into the claims that Corrales was too weak at the weight.

I think Freddie is a good guy. He refused to train Wayne McCullough anymore after his health issues, even though he was cleared to fight, and didn't want Hopkins to fight Pavlik.

I think people have been overrating Roach's ability to analyze and predict things. He has had bad nights as well as good. Only a few months ago he was proved wrong regarding Hopkins-Pavlik, and I remember him saying that Steve Collins would beat Roy Jones, which is hard to imagine.

Obviously he was 100% right about Pac-DLH, but I don't think he was putting DLH's health at risk anymore than is usual in boxing. It's easy to look at things with hindsight and judge people. Before DLH-Pac, people feared for Pac's health. Before Holyfield-Valuev, people feared for Holyfield's health. Now the tune has changed in both instances.

I just think that it's a bit harsh to judge someone in hindsight when many of us had no problem with their decision at the time. Roy had already harmed his body when coming down from heavyweight, then he went down another 5lbs for the Tito fight. No one cares that Roy might have been weight-drained and got hurt because he beat Tito. DLH didn't beat Pac and so people are a lot more likely to focus on it.

I think Roach does the best for his Fighters and looks out for them.

This is also most likely why even though he knew where Oscar was at and the disadvantages the weight would put him at based on history, he still worried about if he had made the mistake of putting Pac in there with him just in case he was wrong or if Oscar defies the odds.

I wouldn’t' mind at all having a guy like Freddie train me or look out for me, but it doesn't mean I have to agree or go along with everything he says or does.

For Pac: I think he just sticks with fighting and let's Freddie deal with everything else. His trust is in Freddie. It's a lot easier for a fighter to do it this way. Especially a fighter like Pac that has the heavy pressure of an entire country on his back.

It's always easier to look afterwards because only a few are able to push through "The Fog of War." Plus, a lot is hidden that we don't know about, like, what was Oscar eating and what was going on in his body. Inside information is hard to get when you are on the outside.
However, many did seem to over-look the fact that he had a black-eye as just beign a part of training...and that he weighed himself on the 24/7 show at 147. I found it odd that he was 147, but I figured it was Oscar weighing himself after a long workout and pissing the rest of the fluids out of his system for the sake of the cameras and promotion. So I over-looked it as well as being serious. It's something that I will learn.
Going by history is a little easier since the information is there.
Even Oscar over-looked it.

[Benny Leonard]

=PerryDplatypus;4520094 You're not even consistent with your replies. How can you be not paying attention all this time when you consider yourself as an objective fan, who debates with another boxing fan and even talks about fighters decades ago.

What???

My quote: It's the same with Floyd and running his mouth at 147. He claimed he was the best but didn't fight the best. Maybe the timing was bad, but if you are going to open your mouth, especially with basically bashing SRR, SRL, and Ali; you better prove it if you started it.
Of course, I also don't agree with many things Ali did either.

Your quote: You replied this to Clegg but you quoted me when I post something about retiring in his prime then you talk about health.

And I ripped Floyd for this instance, however, if a fighter chooses to retire, it's his choice. I did put, "maybe the timing was bad," which means; even though he felt he was the best and could beat the rest at 147, timing wise, since it was at the end of his career given his Mental and Physical status, he does have a pass to retire. However, for Legacy purposes, he has to know that his 147 pound legacy doesn't stand strong because he didn't clear out his biggest threats.

So in other words: Even though he had every right to retire and even though he felt he was the best and could beat the best, since he opened his mouth about 147 and using who he mentioned, and the fact he didn't fight his major threats...his legacy at 147 doesn't hold strong.

Hope that makes sense.

Oh, and remember: I give Pac a pass for moving up to 147 for Oscar even though he just avoided the best fights at 147. I'm not calling him a coward even though Margarito challenged him because he came into Margarito's house.

Yes Roach isn't related until you can find another poster here who agrees that what Roach had done making the fight with Oscar and instructing Pac to finish DLH was a cowardly act

Well, go way back to the Morales weight issue and you will find my back-up.
Plus, I could think of one poster that would probably agree with me.


The fight itself is a different story. Pac was just doing what he had to do and Freddie was instructing Pac to get his head into the game and put his emotions for Oscar aside; this is a fight.
That's something different. That's the effect of taking the fight in the first place. Freddie's responsibility was with Pac at this moment. If he had not, he wouldn't be lookng out for Pac.