Duran is not a top ten ATG

[TheGreatA]

The machine I have a article where Duran said he would not fight Roy Jones over his dead body, if he was 21 or 41 at middleweight. He said Jones is bigger than SRL, Faster than SRL, and hits harder than SRL. Duran said he told Pazienza that fighting Jones would be like committing suicide.

Roy may have been considering it, but Duran sure was not.

I've heard about it.

I'm only pointing out how ridiculous it is to talk about 'double-standards' regarding Duran and then demand over 40 year old Duran to fight Roy Jones, James Toney, Bernard Hopkins, etc. even though neither Hearns, Hagler or Leonard came close to fighting them either and they were years younger.

[wpink1]

I've heard about it.

I'm only pointing out how ridiculous it is to talk about 'double-standards' regarding Duran and then demand over 40 year old Duran to fight Roy Jones, James Toney, Bernard Hopkins, etc. even though neither Hearns, Hagler or Leonard came close to fighting them either and they were years younger.

I agree with that. I never said Duran should have fought those younger fighters.

Brandish is raw..he is a attacker I like him, and he knows his stuff, but i think he trully believes Duran is a all time great. He and I agree that Duran does not rank above fighters such as Leonard, Jones. I dont think mayweather yet deserves to be ranked up there on what he has accomplished in the ring, as he does not have that SRL win, or that hearns, hagler, Duran etc. Mayweather does have a bunch of very very good wins, and has moved up very successfully.

This does not mean that I dont think mayweather would beat Duran at 135 in a head to head match, as I think he would literallly destroy Duran. I have saw tape after tape of Duran. Dejesus beat him the 1st time, and the 2nd time it was pretty even steven for a while. When leoanrd boxed him Duran did not have an answer, and Mayweather would do the same only he is harder to hit than ray is, and is quicker with that 1 single counter, which at lightweight is hard.

Many simply chose duran because most boxing fans like the raw brutality of the sport, so the durans, tysons, etc...get all their attention and love. When you have a fighter like gotti, he becomes a folk hero. However, this is not mma this is boxing, and what many boxinig fans dont realize is that boxing can either be brutal or an art. You have the ko killers like louis, tyson, Hearns, Duran, foreman, shavers. Then youo have the those that are brutal, duran, gotti, pacquio, hagler somewhat etc.. Then you have great boxers mayweather, jones, Leonard, Duran...whitacker....Then you have the super fast speedsters that electrify ..leonard, taylor, camacho, ali, jones, mayweather, norris...

What happens is fans become focused on the type they prefere and cancel out everything else. Some leonard fans refuse to accept the Duran styles and vice versa.

What we have to understand, is that Duran is all time great because he did dominatge a entire decade at lightweight, he did move up and beat leoanrd, and like i posted above was good at pretty much most things in the ring, including a great defensive fighter.

However, Duran never showed himself to be BETTER than the greats. As he never beat them, except for once when Ray fought Durans style. Duran never showed he could deal with a fighter slick boxing style who could move, set him up with speed, and land shots. Duran never showed he could enforce his style and will on a fighter that did not willingly engage him, and this fighter was also experienced and great and peak. Duran never showed this. Those bums- good fighters he beat at lightweight are not a fair comparison to what Leoanrd faced, or whitacker faced, or mayweather faced. They did not face 40 fighters or so that barely could get their record on Boxrec, had 5 loses in 20 fights..etc. When Duran did face the best fighters for whatever reason he left the ring with a loss.

So I give Duran what he has earned. He has earned the right to be labled a all time great. He is. However, compare his resume to Roy Jones. Compare it to Leoanrd in quality of wins. Hell compare him to Chavez. Yes he moved up and chavez pretty much stayed the same weight, but agian Duran moved up and got ass whipings until he stepped down in quality a bit and fought moore and barkley.

I ask you this, should a all time top 5-10, have a record of 1-5 vs the best in his era, or in order to get titles at weight classes he competeed in, he would have to step down from the best in those weight classes and fight 2nd rate champions, like Moore and Barkley. You all knock Mayweather and I do too for not fighting the best welters, well Moore and Barkley where never the best at anything.

So the same way I do not put Mayweather in my top 10, I dont Duran. I think Mayweater if he fights pac-man, and then margerito and convingly wins does get moved up. However today, Mayweather is top 10-20 IMO, but head to head, he would destroy Duran.

[-Lowkey-]

based on what!

well hes regarded by most boxing experts as the best light weight ever. he fought all the best comp even after his prime and in higher weight classes. duran is top 10 maybe top 5 atg imo

[wpink1]

well hes regarded by most boxing experts as the best light weight ever. he fought all the best comp even after his prime and in higher weight classes. duran is top 10 maybe top 5 atg imo

So if most boxing experts jump off a building are you going to. I am asking you based off what accomplishments can you site that he did to have him ranked over these fighters


Sugar ray leoanrd
roy jones
floyd mayweather,
Oscar delahoya
Marvin hagler
tommy hearns
Wilfred benetiz


I am asking you a question,not trying to corner you, as I have Duran ranked ahead of most of these but I can back up my opininon with factual accomplishemnts and in my opinion present a case for why I have some ranked ahead of duran and others behind him..


Can you?

[-Lowkey-]

So if most boxing experts jump off a building are you going to. I am asking you based off what accomplishments can you site that he did to have him ranked over these fighters


Sugar ray leoanrd
roy jones
floyd mayweather,
Oscar delahoya
Marvin hagler
tommy hearns
Wilfred benetiz


I am asking you a question,not trying to corner you, as I have Duran ranked ahead of most of these but I can back up my opininon with factual accomplishemnts and in my opinion present a case for why I have some ranked ahead of duran and others behind him..


Can you?

i have duran ranked ahead of all of them in his prime at lightweight he was a beast losing only once in 64 fights to dejesus and not only beating him but k.oing him in 2 rematches but what he acheaved past his prime was also extreamly impressive the leonard win altho duran was probably just coming out of his prime at 31 the k.o of davey moore beating iran barkly at the age of 37 going 15 rounds in a competitive fight with a prime marvin haglar.
duran acheaved a huge amout and im not alone in thinking he is top 10 maybe top 5 atg...

[wpink1]

i have duran ranked ahead of all of them in his prime at lightweight he was a beast losing only once in 64 fights to dejesus and not only beating him but k.oing him in 2 rematches but what he acheaved past his prime was also extreamly impressive the leonard win altho duran was probably just coming out of his prime at 31 the k.o of davey moore beating iran barkly at the age of 37 going 15 rounds in a competitive fight with a prime marvin haglar.
duran acheaved a huge amout and im not alone in thinking he is top 10 maybe top 5 atg...

Ok....final question.. out of those 64 fights. how many of those opponents where sparring partner level and not worthky of fighting a fighter of durans level? how many opponents with similar records as these horrible opponents do you find on roy jones, Leonards, or maywether resume's.

None after roughly their 10th fight. Duran made living on beating bums.

[-Lowkey-]

Ok....final question.. out of those 64 fights. how many of those opponents where sparring partner level and not worthky of fighting a fighter of durans level? how many opponents with similar records as these horrible opponents do you find on roy jones, Leonards, or maywether resume's.

None after roughly their 10th fight. Duran made living on beating bums.

who else could he have beaten at lightweight othre than the boxers he beat? of course his record is padded and yes i find alot of guys on roys resume
particularly that where not worthy of the fighting him

[wpink1]

who else could he have beaten at lightweight othre than the boxers he beat? of course his record is padded and yes i find alot of guys on roys resume
particularly that where not worthy of the fighting him

Good point, but with out substance. Just because your dominate your era at a particular weight, does not make you a all time top great. What that does is state you where the best during that era.

Larry holmes
benard hopkins...
Marciano
Monzon

the all dominated their weight class and their era...are they top 10 all time.

No top 10 all time is beating other great(s), having a resume that shows dominance during your era and over great fighters. If they choose to go up in weight then that fighter shoiuld be compared to others that made the same decision.

Compare Duran success to Mayweather, Jones, Leonards. Duran has one alltie great win. Leonard has 4 and 5 titles, Jones has 2 and 4 titles including heavyweight, undefeated til age 35 (unless your considering the dq), when he damaged his body losing weight and muscle to get back down to light heavy.

[-Lowkey-]

Good point, but with out substance. Just because your dominate your era at a particular weight, does not make you a all time top great. What that does is state you where the best during that era.

Larry holmes
benard hopkins...
Marciano
Monzon

the all dominated their weight class and their era...are they top 10 all time.

No top 10 all time is beating other great(s), having a resume that shows dominance during your era and over great fighters. If they choose to go up in weight then that fighter shoiuld be compared to others that made the same decision.

Compare Duran success to Mayweather, Jones, Leonards. Duran has one alltie great win. Leonard has 4 and 5 titles, Jones has 2 and 4 titles including heavyweight, undefeated til age 35 (unless your considering the dq), when he damaged his body losing weight and muscle to get back down to light heavy.

well thats a good point none of that list are top 10 atg fighters dispite there dominance in there respective weight divisions but a win over a prime undefeated leonard is better than any win

Larry holmes
benard hopkins
Marciano
Monzon

have ever managed it is also a better win than anyone on mayweathers or jones resumes but your right 1 great elite win does not make you a top 10 atg far from it but i belive in my opinino duran did enough in his career to be regarded so highly as top 10 maybe top 5 his dominance at light weight combined by his wins past his prime in other weight divisions makes me belive this

[wpink1]

well thats a good point none of that list are top 10 atg fighters dispite there dominance in there respective weight divisions but a win over a prime undefeated leonard is better than any win

Larry holmes
benard hopkins
Marciano
Monzon

have ever managed it is also a better win than anyone on mayweathers or jones resumes but your right 1 great elite win does not make you a top 10 atg far from it but i belive in my opinino duran did enough in his career to be regarded so highly as top 10 maybe top 5 his dominance at light weight combined by his wins past his prime in other weight divisions makes me belive this

Your leaving out the fact that duran got his ass handed to him 5 out of 6 times, when he faced the elite fighters. That means over 80% of the time before he turned 34, he lost when he faced the best fighters of his era.

Everyone is judged by their success as they move up in weight, so the same protocol should be applied to Durans's career. Example do we give dlh a pass eith his loses at welter, and above since he moved up?