Who is Higher All Time Great? Pac or Floyd

[Benny Leonard]

Roach is a coward... he told Manny to knock Oscar Out..
Praise Floyd Sr. for bashing Dundee and Nacho, they don't know anything about boxing, for oscar would have also lost if he was in his corner.

Yes I am objective.

Why would you call Roach a coward for telling Manny to knock out Oscar???

[Benny Leonard]

that **** is sad.

that's one of the greatest fighters of all time and you put up a bloody , beat up pic of him in his old age to mock him.

So then you should understand my points with Freddie Roach

[Left Hook Tua]

So then you should understand my points with Freddie Roach

it was payback for chavez.

pacquiao avenged mexico!!!!!

[Benny Leonard]

it was payback for chavez.

pacquiao avenged mexico!!!!!

Excuses

So what was the case for Morales?
Payback for being faded but better than the Pacman?

[Left Hook Tua]

Excuses

So what was the case for Morales?
Payback for being faded but better than the Pacman?

erik was considered the #2 130 fighter in the world at the time. he was still on the top 10 p4p list by the 1st fight.

the rematch was a must. it was a close fight. what would people say if manny didn't try to get a rematch?

the 3rd they could've done without. problem is marco wasn't interested in a rematch at the time. can you blame him after the 126 fight? marquez was still at 126 and he just lost to john.

a morales 3rd still made money. who else was there to fight at 130? mosquera? peden?

valero and guzman wasn't ranked yet. they haven't even had a single okay win yet.

it's easy to criticize after the fact. fact is all of manny's major fights were fights the fans wanted.

[Benny Leonard]

erik was considered the #2 130 fighter in the world at the time. he was still on the top 10 p4p list by the 1st fight.

the rematch was a must. it was a close fight. what would people say if manny didn't try to get a rematch?

the 3rd they could've done without. problem is marco wasn't interested in a rematch at the time. can you blame him after the 126 fight? marquez was still at 126 and he just lost to john.

a morales 3rd still made money. who else was there to fight at 130? mosquera? peden?

valero and guzman wasn't ranked yet. they haven't even had a single okay win yet.

it's easy to criticize after the fact. fact is all of manny's major fights were fights the fans wanted.

My issue was the weight and not so much the rematch. You can have a rematch but why not make it in the next division up where Morales had just fought and supposedly wanted it?
Why take that away from him.
And yes, before what's his name blurts out spit: nobody had a gun pointed to Morales head, blah, blah, blah...not the point. Stick with Freddie.

I criticized the weight issue as soon as I heard about it which was discussed before the fight and on these boards. First time I was shocked with Freddie Roach.

Kind of surprised Manny lost the first fight; I wasn't expecting that kind of loss so I too was for a rematch...just at a higher weight based on Morales's request...although, I was hesitant after seeing Morales lose to Zahir...that surprised me as well. That was actually kind of sad.

My points still stick with Freddie's philosophy of taken advantage of certain things given who he is and his own state of health...or is this over-shadowed because he is responsible for Pac and not anybody else? Maybe.

[Left Hook Tua]

My issue was the weight and not so much the rematch. You can have a rematch but why not make it in the next division up where Morales had just fought and supposedly wanted it?
Why take that away from him.
And yes, before what's his name blurts out spit: nobody had a gun pointed to Morales head, blah, blah, blah...not the point. Stick with Freddie.

I criticized the weight issue as soon as I heard about it which was discussed before the fight and on these boards. First time I was shocked with Freddie Roach.

Kind of surprised Manny lost the first fight; I wasn't expecting that kind of loss so I too was for a rematch...just at a higher weight based on Morales's request...although, I was hesitant after seeing Morales lose to Zahir...that surprised me as well. That was actually kind of sad.

My points still stick with Freddie's philosophy of taken advantage of certain things given who he is and his own state of health...or is this over-shadowed because he is responsible for Pac and not anybody else? Maybe.

the weight issue only applied to the 3rd fight.

erik wanted to try 135 out with raheem and when he lost he went back down to 130 for manny.

erik didn't want a 135 fight with manny 'til the 3rd bout. which i already said they could've gone without except for the financial reasons. there was really no money for another fight for either except for each other. marquez was trying to put his career back together after the john robbery , erik didn't want to fight marco again and marco didn't want to fight manny again yet.

so only 2 times did roach really play the weight card. the 3rd fight with morales and oscar.

[Benny Leonard]

the weight issue only applied to the 3rd fight.
erik wanted to try 135 out with raheem and when he lost he went back down to 130 for manny.

erik didn't want a 135 fight with manny 'til the 3rd bout. which i already said they could've gone without except for the financial reasons. there was really no money for another fight for either except for each other. marquez was trying to put his career back together after the john robbery , erik didn't want to fight marco again and marco didn't want to fight manny again yet.

so only 2 times did roach really play the weight card. the 3rd fight with morales and oscar.

Thanks for clearing that up.

Do you agree with the weight issue tactic though?
Especially with one of his recent interviews on why he does it?



Also: How much credit can Pac get for the second and third fight with Morales given the point at which Morales was at in his career?

[Left Hook Tua]

Thanks for clearing that up.

Do you agree with the weight issue tactic though?
Especially with one of his recent interviews on why he does it?



Also: How much credit can Pac get for the second and third fight with Morales given the point at which Morales was at in his career?

i think trainers ask for what gives their fighter the advantage or the other fighter a disadvantage.

it's part of the sport. like the wrapping of hands thing everyone argues about now. unless the other guy is getting his hands wrapped by panama lewis......does an inch of tape really matter? maybe. maybe not.

i think beating morales even a past prime one is a great win. remember erik didn't do too bad against diaz who is a huge junior welterweight fighting at lightweight.

maybe looking back it wasn't as great as it was. but remember......manny was the underdog in the 1st two fights.

[Benny Leonard]

i think trainers ask for what gives their fighter the advantage or the other fighter a disadvantage.

it's part of the sport. like the wrapping of hands thing everyone argues about now. unless the other guy is getting his hands wrapped by panama lewis......does an inch of tape really matter? maybe. maybe not.

i think beating morales even a past prime one is a great win. remember erik didn't do too bad against diaz who is a huge junior welterweight fighting at lightweight.

maybe looking back it wasn't as great as it was. but remember......manny was the underdog in the 1st two fights.

Maybe I expect too much of Freddie Roach and have respect for once "Great" fighters. But, in this dog eat dog world, it's a choice you have to make if you want to gain the advantage so I do understand the logic, however; when it's recorded, everything should be noted. Not everybody would want to win like this.


It's still a "Great" win? I dont' think so. Was Zahir's win over Morales a "Great" win?
Was Floyd's win over Oscar a "Great" win?

Maybe for the fighters themselves, but I don't think so in regards to written history.


MAB victory: I can agree with calling that a Very Good to possibly a Great Win.