Can anyone give me the best conclusion...

[Silencers]

Silencers I do see where your coming from, but I dont think it was necessarily Oscar lack of finding the opening as much as it was Pacman closing the opening..

I think it was the style of fighting and CONSTANT movement of the head and body, in and out, relentless speed style fighting that completely killed Oscar...

I think against a plodding come forward fighter... trinidad... jcc.. someone whose going to stand there and box normally Oscar would still do fine...

I think Pacman was the main reason oscar appeared shot, I thought Oscar looked good against forbes personally, that was about 8 months ago.. he was throwing combos 8 months ago... the difference here was pacman...

It wasn't just not being able to seize any openings, it was also that he wasn't jabbing with any authority whatsoever, I've never seen his jab look so bad before, even against guys that were slicker than Pacquiao, he lost snap after 2 rounds, he was going off balance when he was throwing shots, part of it can be attributed to Pacquiao but most of it I attribute to DLH losing his legs. A guy like DLH relied a lot of his legs to generate power and snap, he just doesn't have it anymore.

I think he'd do even worse against a come forward guy honestly with the way his legs were late in the fight, he got pushed back by Pacquiao, a guy that would come forward would constantly push him back, he used to be able to stand his ground when a guy came forward at him, if he can't stand his ground against Pacquiao, I don't like his chances on standing his ground against bigger men. And once he gets pushed back to the ropes, his dulled reflexes will show very clearly, Pacquiao's speed of course made it more pronounced but even with Pacquiao's speed, DLH would have never gotten hit with as many shots as he did if his reflexes were any better.

8 months can be an eternity for a fighter, Jones looked great 8 months before fighting Tarver, I know about the weight thing but it's just an example of how much can be lost in 8 months.

[wmute]

It wasn't just not being able to seize any openings, it was also that he wasn't jabbing with any authority whatsoever, I've never seen his jab look so bad before, even against guys that were slicker than Pacquiao, he lost snap after 2 rounds, he was going off balance when he was throwing shots, part of it can be attributed to Pacquiao but most of it I attribute to DLH being shot.

I think he'd do even worse against a come forward guy honestly with the way his legs were late in the fight, he got pushed back by Pacquiao, a guy that would come forward would constantly push him back, he used to be able to stand his ground when a guy came forward at him, if he can't stand his ground against Pacquiao, I don't like his chances on standing his ground against bigger men. And once he gets pushed back to the ropes, his dulled reflexes showed very clearly, Pacquiao's speed of course made it more pronounced but even with Pacquiao's speed, DLH would have never gotten hit with as many shots as he did.

8 months can be an eternity for a fighter, Jones looked great 8 months before fighting Tarver, I know about the weight thing but it's just an example of how much can be lost in 8 months.

well in fact Oscar shed a lot of weight too...

[-Antonio-]

The reason Pacquiao won was because he fought a great fight. His right hand has never been better. He was bouncing in and out too quick for Oscar to get set. He kept switching up his lead punches, so Oscar couldnt pick them off.

The reason why it was so one sided was because Oscar is shot. He looked weak, slower, unable to get off at times when in his prime he would have fired back. Just watch the last round of the Mosely fight when Shane fires quick punches at Oscar he was able to flurry back. He may not have landed, but he answered. Against Pac, he couldnt answer. Hence the reason Freddie took this fight. It's what he said all along right? Oscar cant pull the trigger.

Something should be said for Manny's overall speed though. His foot speed and rhythm is something incredibly hard to deal with. I'd love to see him fight Floyd. His ability to spring in and out is a serious attribute, similar to what Joe Calzaghe has.

[THE REED]

It wasn't just not being able to seize any openings, it was also that he wasn't jabbing with any authority whatsoever, I've never seen his jab look so bad before, even against guys that were slicker than Pacquiao, he lost snap after 2 rounds, he was going off balance when he was throwing shots, part of it can be attributed to Pacquiao but most of it I attribute to DLH losing his legs. A guy like DLH relied a lot of his legs to generate power and snap, he just doesn't have it anymore.

I think he'd do even worse against a come forward guy honestly with the way his legs were late in the fight, he got pushed back by Pacquiao, a guy that would come forward would constantly push him back, he used to be able to stand his ground when a guy came forward at him, if he can't stand his ground against Pacquiao, I don't like his chances on standing his ground against bigger men. And once he gets pushed back to the ropes, his dulled reflexes will show very clearly, Pacquiao's speed of course made it more pronounced but even with Pacquiao's speed, DLH would have never gotten hit with as many shots as he did if his reflexes were any better.

8 months can be an eternity for a fighter, Jones looked great 8 months before fighting Tarver, I know about the weight thing but it's just an example of how much can be lost in 8 months.

well in fact Oscar shed a lot of weight too...

I attribute the loss of the Jab in the pac fight the same exact reason I attribute in the Floyd fight...

If theres nothing there, you usually dont throw... Pac and Floyd arent generally there to be hit... he lost snap on his jab because he lost confidence in his jab, and he lost confidence in it because Floyd and Pac MOVE, and FAST... if the guys to fast to hit, you generally dont have confidence in your offensive arsenal.. Forbes not as fast... there to be hit

Oscar looked better in the Floyd fight... but Pac looked better then Floyd...
I dont think kelly Pavlik is shot... and I think if that same fight happened when kelly was 35, I wouldnt think he was shot.. I think he got outclassed by a smarter more skilled fighter... just like Oscar got outclassed by an unbelievably faster fighter.

[Silencers]

well in fact Oscar shed a lot of weight too...

True but just not as much as Jones did.

[MANGLER]

Pac proved me and many others wrong. DLH was shot and Pac was just clearly better. DLH didn't throw it, he lost for real. Pac beatin an old DLH don't mean he could take Marg, Clottey, or Cotto. PBF don't want it wit none of those guys, but the Pac win might be enuf to get him back in the ring, and he'd win if they fought at 140 or 147. Pac-Hatton looks good at 140 and I'd pick Pac to beat him. PBF-Pac is a big $ fight but I still say PBF should fight the top WW or just stay retired. Even tho DLH was shot, Pac should still get mad props for winnin, especially as easily as he did.

[THE REED]

im out for the nite its 2am, tty guys 2moro.. ill pay #50 then too

[Silencers]

I attribute the loss of the Jab in the pac fight the same exact reason I attribute in the Floyd fight...

If theres nothing there, you usually dont throw... Pac and Floyd arent generally there to be hit... he lost snap on his jab because he lost confidence in his jab, and he lost confidence in it because Floyd and Pac MOVE, and FAST... if the guys to fast to hit, you generally dont have confidence in your offensive arsenal.. Forbes not as fast... there to be hit

Oscar looked better in the Floyd fight... but Pac looked better then Floyd...
I dont think kelly Pavlik is shot... and I think if that same fight happened when kelly was 35, I wouldnt think he was shot.. I think he got outclassed by a smarter more skilled fighter... just like Oscar got outclassed by an unbelievably faster fighter.

The thing is I noticed Pacquiao was there to be hit by the jab, when DLH threw his jab, even without much authority, Pacquiao would back off right away, it wasn't that he wasn't there to get hit by the jab, DLH just couldn't pull that trigger anymore.

To me DLH is shot, most of the physical signs point to him being shot, he looked like a shell of himself in there. It's like he said in the post fight interview, why bother fighting on if your body can't respond? He knows it.

[miron_lang]

Oscar looked better in the Floyd fight... but Pac looked better then Floyd...
I dont think kelly Pavlik is shot... and I think if that same fight happened when kelly was 35, I wouldnt think he was shot.. I think he got outclassed by a smarter more skilled fighter... just like Oscar got outclassed by an unbelievably faster fighter.

Barrera looked shot in the 1st fight againts PAC right? he didnt win a single round. On his very next bout he stopped a former champion that never been stopped before on his way to capturing another title in a higher division.

This version of DelaHoya is not the best but fair him with a 2nd tier opponent ala Mayorga and he will shine.

DLH and MAB looked terrible in a one sided beating not because they were shot but because of the opponent.

Shot fighters are the former TOP level fighters losing or even being stopped by 2nd Tier fightes like the Gatti that was stopped by Gomez.


*Give credit where credit is due

[wmute]

I attribute the loss of the Jab in the pac fight the same exact reason I attribute in the Floyd fight...

If theres nothing there, you usually dont throw... Pac and Floyd arent generally there to be hit... he lost snap on his jab because he lost confidence in his jab, and he lost confidence in it because Floyd and Pac MOVE, and FAST... if the guys to fast to hit, you generally dont have confidence in your offensive arsenal.. Forbes not as fast... there to be hit

Oscar looked better in the Floyd fight... but Pac looked better then Floyd...
I dont think kelly Pavlik is shot... and I think if that same fight happened when kelly was 35, I wouldnt think he was shot.. I think he got outclassed by a smarter more skilled fighter... just like Oscar got outclassed by an unbelievably faster fighter.

Reed, you talking about the jab... not a powerpunch... you keep pumping the damn thing even if you dont see openings. It works as a deterrent, or to keep the other guy off balance. With that type of reach advantage, with the type of fight Pac was fighting (he wasnt staying very close or anything), the jab should have been out there. Keep it low, chest height or whatever, you just don't stop throwing after 20 jabs like Oscar did.