Tszyu vs De La Hoya & others, how come it didn't happen?

[Brandish]

After seeing the incredible allegations of a few Mayweatherites here alleging that the great Jr. Welter Weight Champ Kostya Tszyu ran from Floyd Mayweather, Jr., I was inspired to set the record straight. My findings:

why did zoo fight hatton instead of floyd since floyd was ranked higher then hatton at the time

Fully in stride now, Mayweather moved up to Jr. Welter (140), where hall of famer Kostya Tszyu reigned supreme. Instead of calling on Tszyu, Floyd proceeded to feed on a steady diet of bums. On May 22, 2004, it was Demarcus Corley. On January 22, 2005, it was Henry Bruseles. And, on June 25, 2005, Floyd dismantled the last of the 5 bums, the washed up warrior, Arturo Gatti. 5 bums and no Tszyu.

was kosta injured and inactive on may22nd 2004 last time I checked zoo was inactive until nov 04 and was already signed to face sharmba on that date before may 22nd 2004. during kosta's mighty reign how many times did he defend his unified belt

Tszyu fought in 2002, 2003, 2004, and 2005. He was top ten p4p in all those years. He began that period of time as the Jr. Welter Weight unified undisputed champion (the first to do it in 30 years). During the mid portion of that period he held two titles, and finally lost the IBF title to Ricky Hatton in June 2005. He retired after that fight at age 36. During this period, there were no serious inquiries from the Floyd camp about a fight against Tszyu. Cheap talk, no walk.

once again here is the article stating that zoo wanted oscar after the hatton fight. this is coming straight from his promoter. so the question is how many times did zoo fight in 02, 03, 04, and 05. and if he is only fighting once a year how can any meanigful fight be made

http://www.canbet.com.au/whatsnew/ko...ky-hatton.aspx

Exhibit #1: KOSTYA TSZYU DENIES DEAL TO FIGHT HATTON

According to a recent report by GRANTLEE KIEZA, Kostya Tszyu has again confirmed there is no deal to fight hard-hitting Englishman Ricky Hatton for $5million. Two weeks ago Tszyu told The Daily Telegraph exclusively that he wasn't fighting Hatton on March 5 in Manchester as the British press had announced and was forced to repeat his position yesterday after reports out of England saying a deal had been made.

who did zoo wind up fighting in 05, you guessed it the lowly ranked ricky hatton

Before heading off to his native Russia to collect a major award from President Vladimir *****, Tszyu said yesterday: "I am not fighting Ricky Hatton in Manchester anytime soon.

"I can't believe Hatton's promoter [Frank Warren] is still saying I am fighting him because there has been no deal made.

at this time zoo and his team is negotiating a deal with hatton's team.

"Right now I am having a holiday for a few weeks and just enjoying time with my wife and kids. When it is time to fight again we will see who is on offer. But I promised my family I would not be training over Christmas so I will certainly not be fighting again by March."

When told that Warren said he had a verbal agreement with Tszyu's American-based promoter Vlad Warton, Tszyu smiled and said: "I decide who I fight, no one else."

are you calling frank warren a lier, because who turned out to be telling the truth kosta or frank warren

Tszyu said he was far more interested in an offer of $10.5 million from American promoter Murad Muhammad to fight WBC champion Arturo Gatti and former world junior-lightweight and lightweight champion Floyd Mayweather.
"I want to fight them both," Tszyu said. "They mean a lot more on the world scene than Ricky Hatton."

murad muhammad does not represent floyd mayweather jr..nice try though.. and if they both ,meant more on the world stage why did zoo fight hatton.

Kostya Tszyu: "It would be a great fight. I fought his uncle (Roger-W 12 in '95 in Newcastle, Australia) who's training him now. It would be good to fight him too. I remember after Olympic Games ('96) we were in same room as Bob Arum, he just started his career. I already was world champion. It would be a good, good matchup. If the short time will be able to produce this match, it will be a great fight." October 25, 2004
www.********boxing.com/news.php?p=2064&more=1

yet based on this article he wants dela hoya after the hatton fight no mention of lfoyd mayweather jrhttp://www.canbet.com.au/whatsnew/ko...ky-hatton.aspx


ARGUMENT:

Just as I always said, Tszyu was always open to any top contender at 140, ESPECIALLY Floyd. Floyd simply did not want any piece of Tszyu. Who knows, maybe uncle Roger didn't like the idea?

yet his team never made floyd's team an offer and instead choose to fight ricky hatton who was ranked lower then floyd.

You will note that Tszyu destroyed Sharmba Mitchell (4 knockdowns and KO in the 3rd) on November 6, 2004. Tszyu remained unsigned and available to take a fight with Floyd for roughly two months after that fight. Mayweather didn't sign to fight Gatti until after January 30, 2005.

not true as noted in your article above the british press made mention of negotiations between zoos team and hatton's team on 12-5-04, there was even a verbal agreement between the two camps. no mention of lfoyd's promoter or even floyd being in the mix for a fight with zoo

Unfortunately for boxing, DURING THIS TIME PERIOD Floyd never muttered a word. Instead of going after one of the greatest 140 champions of modern times, Floyd signed to fight the fifth installment in our gallery of bums, Arturo Gatti. There was no mention of Tszyu. There were no inquiries about getting the fight. There was nothing but a resounding wall of silence. Result? Tszyu signed to fight Ricky Hatton, and the rest is history.

ricky hatton was a bigger bum then gatti at 140 during this time. who was ranked number 1 by ring and who was ranked #7. gatti was next in line to challenge zoo for the ring title since ring had gatti ranked #1

This is evidence. Floyd can talk it up all he wants AFTER the fact. It doesn't matter. The self proclaimed "greatest of all time" skipped out on a real fight of historical proportions against the man.

I present to you, "The Theory of the 5 Bums."

there goes your theory right down the toilet.

1. zoo was inactive from 1/19/03 to 11/6/04 a full 22 months of inactivity due to injury

2. zoo was in negotiations with hattons team 2 weeks after beating sharmba in nov 04

3. zoo never mentioned fighting floyd after fighting ricky hatton his team talked about oscar de la hoya.

4. zoo could have moved up to 147 and fought floyd if he really wanted to fight him..retiring after getting his ass beat by a lowly ranked ricky hatton was a chump move.

5. zoo never faced a legend in his prime and was beaten by c-level fighters like hatton and phillips floyd has nver been defeated

[Benny Leonard]

It is a shame that Floyd never tried to hook up a fight with Tszyu. It's a real shame because at the time he was at 140, Floyd was beating bums and saying he was the best of all time. The problem is that Tszyu was the unified undisputed champion at 140 at the time. This is a real indictment against Floyd.

There's a thread right now in this forum in which DeLaHoya categorically states: "Floyd is unwilling to take risks. He is afraid to lose." DLH goes on to question Floyd's "heart".
One can point to Tszyu as extremely potent evidence of this.

Saying you want it and getting it done is something else. They both still had to get Showtime and HBO together. Gatti and Floyd were on HBO so it was an easier fight to be made. Hatton and Tszyu were on Showtime so that fight was easier made; especially with Hatton being the mandatory.

After those fights, the fight would have been big enough to justify the PPV Floyd and HBO wanted to make up any loss in money if the two companies got together; it was like Lewis vs. Tyson type negotiations...except when you have Tyson, you don't really need that big of a name. Floyd wasn't Tyson and nor was Tszyu; they weren't even Lewis at that point.

The Gatti fight made Floyd more known which he needed.

Tszyu didn't plan on his career ending with Hatton; his plan was still to go for Floyd, which is why Floyd was still at 140. If Floyd wanted to skip Tszyu he would have just moved up to 147.

After Tszyu lost to Hatton, Floyd tried to get a fight with Hatton, but Hatton refused Floyd twice; which is why Floyd just moved up and tried to get Oscar.


I want to see CONTRACTS presented from you. Show me articles detailing the contract sent by Tszyu's promoter....as well as Showtime and HBO agreeing to it. If you can't come up with that, there is no fight.


And the fact still remains: TSZYU NEVER MOVED UP TO 147.

[wmute]

Mayweather is not a dumb fighter....he dodged Tszyu....that clearly shows his intelligence. You say reach advantage and speed advantage. Sounds like Judah, doesn't it? You say Mayweather "wouldn't need to move to beat Tszyu". Rofl!! Don't you be telling me I know nothing about boxing again.

Tszyu was Floyd's worst nightmare.

Lol @ the Judah comparison. Judah is a fighter with 0 tactical talent, who got ****y against a great fighter, and is open for straight right hands, like most southpaws. Moreover Judah was not trying to disciplinedly pot shot Zoo like he should hav to exploit his speed and reach advantage.

Sorry, you still dont know **** about boxing, like when you said (Calzaghe's defense is more impressive than Mayweather)

And the straight right is the punch for which that shoulder roll defense works best, because it takes minimal movement to evade one rolling or slipping and if the person who threw it commits to the punch, the rolling movement leaves them more unbalanced and open for counters than a standard block.


And yes, Mayweather doesnt need to move to beat Zoo, because he can fihht him on the inside and beat him there. What is Zoo going to do on the inside to beat Mayweather? I am curious...

[Benny Leonard]

It is a shame that Floyd never tried to hook up a fight with Tszyu. It's a real shame because at the time he was at 140, Floyd was beating bums and saying he was the best of all time. The problem is that Tszyu was the unified undisputed champion at 140 at the time. This is a real indictment against Floyd.

There's a thread right now in this forum in which DeLaHoya categorically states: "Floyd is unwilling to take risks. He is afraid to lose." DLH goes on to question Floyd's "heart".
One can point to Tszyu as extremely potent evidence of this.

It's a real shame Tszyu never moved up to 147 when the division was hot with talent: Shane Mosley; Oscar De La Hoya; Vernon Forrest; Tito; and Mayorga.

He could have at least moved up around 2000 when he regained the title; he had some leverage by that point. After his loss to Phillips, I understood he had to regain his credibility.


And if Floyd never wanted the fight, how come in an interview with Tszyu when he talked about a comeback fight after his Hatton loss, said he knows he can always get a fight with Floyd Jr. if he wanted to...but was still undecided if he would return...how would he know that?

[Benny Leonard]

http://www.********boxing.com/news.php?p=3114&more=1 { east side }
01.04.05

Do you think that Gatti is the best puncher that you’ve ever faced?

Mayweather: No. Not at all. Anybody can crack but it will be no harder than mine. My strategy is to win. Don’t get big headed and listen. First of all after I beat him I’ll have to party on his turf. Have a big party on his turf. Then I look forward to fighting Oscar de la Hoya – I’ve been chasing this guy for the longest. Every time I talk about him you guys never write it. I wish you reporters would write it. I am willing to make the jump to 147 to test my dad’s training skills against my boxing skills. He feels he’s got the best trainer in the world and I feel I’ve got the best trainer in the world. I’ve got Roger Mayweather and he’s got Floyd Mayweather, Sr. So let’s make this fight happen. I feel that this is nothing but a stepping stone for me. I look forward to fighting Kostya Tszyu – that’s a fight for me.
I’m calling them out and always saying their name but they are never saying my name.





What did you think when you heard Gatti wasn;t going to be there?

Mayweather: First, Leonard Ellerby came to my room and he said “Floyd, you were right. Arturo Gatti is scared.” I had the fight face on and then I smiled. He can say what he wants. I know this sport. I know boxing inside out. When my career is over I’m going to be a good commentator and a good writer because I know the sport. I know how fighters act and I know if they are scare or not. I go out and call people out because that’s what the media wants. After my fights I go on TV and say, ‘I want to fight Arturo Gatti. I want to fight Kostya Tszyu. I want to fight Shane Mosley. I want to fight Oscar De La Hoya.’ I literally say their names.

I don’t want to go steal the show on that man. They said he had the stomach flu. They said his temperature was 102. I guess it will be down tomorrow because I don’t want it to go to 140. I don’t want his temperature to be the same as his weight class.

They better keep him away from me.

[Benny Leonard]

http://www.thesweetscience.com/boxing-article/1585/mayweather-challenges-tszyu-hoya-cotto/

{the sweetscience}

Today’s sensational 140-pound crop includes universally recognized champion Kostya Tszyu (31-1), his next challenger Ricky Hatton (38-0), Mayweather (32-0), and Cotto (22-0).

Gatti (38-6), resurgent recently, has a big following, and adds steam to boxing’s best division.

It all sounds great until the socio-political stuff factors in. Tszyu fights for Showtime.

Mayweather, Cotto and Gatti all fight for HBO. It’s a highly unusual situation that the smaller of the two subscription-cable boxing giants holds sway over a division populated by so many of the larger network’s fighters, but that is the position.

"I would love to fight Kostya Tszyu,” Mayweather said. “If the money's right, I'll go to Russia to fight him. I just want to show I'm the best. But with HBO and Showtime, I know it's going to be hard to make the fight."
Mayweather’s first order of business is a June pay-per-view fight with Gatti, which is a long, long way from a done deal.

He would like Tszyu after that, unless Oscar De La Hoya wants to rumble. Mayweather still craves that fight, though De La Hoya consistently has remained three weight divisions heavier. But if De La Hoya drops back to welterweight as advertised, they will be separated by just one division and seven pounds.

[Wiley Hyena]

Originally posted by Brandish:

"there goes your theory right down the toilet.

RESPONSE: I don't think so. If you want to disbelieve the evidence, that's your choice. But, generally speaking, the "liar liar pants on fire" defense...is no defense at all.

1. zoo was inactive from 1/19/03 to 11/6/04 a full 22 months of inactivity due to injury

RESPONSE: He wasn't too injured to sign for and train for Mitchell who he destroyed in Nov. 04.

2. zoo was in negotiations with hattons team 2 weeks after beating sharmba in nov 04

RESPONSE: Yes, but he didn't SIGN for Hatton for approximately 2 months and until after it was clear that Floyd was out of the picture.

3. zoo never mentioned fighting floyd after fighting ricky hatton his team talked about oscar de la hoya.

RESPONSE: The article and the evidence suggest that Tszyu wanted Floyd BEFORE the Hatton fight. But, to no avail. Floyd had other concerns with the C class Arturo Gatti.

4. zoo could have moved up to 147 and fought floyd if he really wanted to fight him..retiring after getting his ass beat by a lowly ranked ricky hatton was a chump move.

RESPONSE: Tszyu was 36 and past his prime when he fought Hatton. But, I didn't see Floyd sending out any offers to Tszyu even after Tszyu lost to Hatton. In fact, Floyd never even attempted to seriously negotiate with Tszyu....ever.

5. zoo never faced a legend in his prime and was beaten by c-level fighters like hatton and phillips floyd has nver been defeated"

RESPONSE: Your memory or boxing knowledge are in question here. Hatton and Phillips are Tszyu's only losses. All these guys lost to Tszyu: Julio Cesar Chavez (103-4-2), Miguel Angel Gonzales (43-1-1), Hector Lopez (26-2-1), Hugo Pineda (27-0-1), Rafael Ruelas (52-3), Sharmba Mitchell (47-2), Oktay Urkel (28-0), Zab Judah (27-0), Jesse James Leija (43-5-2), Jan Bergman (32-0)...and not to mention that Vernon Forrest was dominated by Tszyu in the World Amateur Championship (a total clown job).

Is it Tszyu's fault that Oscar, Mosely, and Mayweather avoided him like the plague? No...in fact, it's to his credit. They didn't want to risk their superstar status on a fight with Kostya Tszyu.

[wmute]

Originally posted by Brandish:

"there goes your theory right down the toilet.

RESPONSE: I don't think so. If you want to disbelieve the evidence, that's your choice. But, generally speaking, the "liar liar pants on fire" defense...is no defense at all.

1. zoo was inactive from 1/19/03 to 11/6/04 a full 22 months of inactivity due to injury

RESPONSE: He wasn't too injured to sign for and train for Mitchell who he destroyed in Nov. 04.

2. zoo was in negotiations with hattons team 2 weeks after beating sharmba in nov 04

RESPONSE: Yes, but he didn't SIGN for Hatton for approximately 2 months and until after it was clear that Floyd was out of the picture.

3. zoo never mentioned fighting floyd after fighting ricky hatton his team talked about oscar de la hoya.

RESPONSE: The article and the evidence suggest that Tszyu wanted Floyd BEFORE the Hatton fight. But, to no avail. Floyd had other concerns with the C class Arturo Gatti.

4. zoo could have moved up to 147 and fought floyd if he really wanted to fight him..retiring after getting his ass beat by a lowly ranked ricky hatton was a chump move.

RESPONSE: Tszyu was 36 and past his prime when he fought Hatton. But, I didn't see Floyd sending out any offers to Tszyu even after Tszyu lost to Hatton. In fact, Floyd never even attempted to seriously negotiate with Tszyu....ever.

5. zoo never faced a legend in his prime and was beaten by c-level fighters like hatton and phillips floyd has nver been defeated"

RESPONSE: Your memory or boxing knowledge are in question here. Hatton and Phillips are Tszyu's only losses. All these guys lost to Tszyu: Julio Cesar Chavez (103-4-2), Miguel Angel Gonzales (43-1-1), Hector Lopez (26-2-1), Hugo Pineda (27-0-1), Rafael Ruelas (52-3), Sharmba Mitchell (47-2), Oktay Urkel (28-0), Zab Judah (27-0), Jesse James Leija (43-5-2), Jan Bergman (32-0)...and not to mention that Vernon Forrest was dominated by Tszyu in the World Amateur Championship (a total clown job).

Is it Tszyu's fault that Oscar, Mosely, and Mayweather avoided him like the plague? No...in fact, it's to his credit. They didn't want to risk their superstar status on a fight with Kostya Tszyu.

LOL @ the bold... Zoo *had to* fight Mitchell, comprende?

Oscar, Mosley and Mayweather did not avoid Zoo. Get the **** over it.

Shane fought Winky Wright in possibly the highest risk lowest return career choice made in recent times, yet he ducked Zoo...

Oscar fought Tito, Pea, Quartey, Vargas and Hopkins... no comment

As for Mayweather, you are being contraticted right now post by post, article by article.

Just drop it already, Zoo is a helluva fighter, but no one "ducked" him...

[Benny Leonard]

Originally posted by Brandish:

"there goes your theory right down the toilet.

RESPONSE: I don't think so. If you want to disbelieve the evidence, that's your choice. But, generally speaking, the "liar liar pants on fire" defense...is no defense at all.

1. zoo was inactive from 1/19/03 to 11/6/04 a full 22 months of inactivity due to injury

RESPONSE: He wasn't too injured to sign for and train for Mitchell who he destroyed in Nov. 04.

2. zoo was in negotiations with hattons team 2 weeks after beating sharmba in nov 04

RESPONSE: Yes, but he didn't SIGN for Hatton for approximately 2 months and until after it was clear that Floyd was out of the picture.

3. zoo never mentioned fighting floyd after fighting ricky hatton his team talked about oscar de la hoya.

RESPONSE: The article and the evidence suggest that Tszyu wanted Floyd BEFORE the Hatton fight. But, to no avail. Floyd had other concerns with the C class Arturo Gatti.

4. zoo could have moved up to 147 and fought floyd if he really wanted to fight him..retiring after getting his ass beat by a lowly ranked ricky hatton was a chump move.

RESPONSE: Tszyu was 36 and past his prime when he fought Hatton. But, I didn't see Floyd sending out any offers to Tszyu even after Tszyu lost to Hatton. In fact, Floyd never even attempted to seriously negotiate with Tszyu....ever.

5. zoo never faced a legend in his prime and was beaten by c-level fighters like hatton and phillips floyd has nver been defeated"

RESPONSE: Your memory or boxing knowledge are in question here. Hatton and Phillips are Tszyu's only losses. All these guys lost to Tszyu: Julio Cesar Chavez (103-4-2), Miguel Angel Gonzales (43-1-1), Hector Lopez (26-2-1), Hugo Pineda (27-0-1), Rafael Ruelas (52-3), Sharmba Mitchell (47-2), Oktay Urkel (28-0), Zab Judah (27-0), Jesse James Leija (43-5-2), Jan Bergman (32-0)...and not to mention that Vernon Forrest was dominated by Tszyu in the World Amateur Championship (a total clown job).

Is it Tszyu's fault that Oscar, Mosely, and Mayweather avoided him like the plague? No...in fact, it's to his credit. They didn't want to risk their superstar status on a fight with Kostya Tszyu.

Actually, there was an interview after Tszyu lost to Hatton about a comeback fight and Tszyu said he was unsure but knew he could call up Floyd and get a fight. This was on Kostya's Tszyu's website. Not sure if it was directly with his webiste but it was posted on the website page for "interviews."


So you are telling me, they didn't want to risk their "superstar" status against Kostya Tszyu, who was KTFO by Phillips...yet Oscar didn't mind fighting TITO and HOPKINS? and Shane fougth Oscar, Forrest, and Winky?

Isn't past prime Shane set to fight Margarito?

Shane and Oscar are some of the top risk takers in their generation.


I'm a fan of Kostya Tszyu, but you are talking nonsense.

A lot does have to do with timing since he was set to face Oscar after Phillips, but lost to Phillips. He was set to possibly fight Floyd in a PPV fight but he lost to Hatton.

Then of course you havee all the injuries and time off he had to take.

He just wasn't active enough to get himself back on track.

[Wiley Hyena]

Actually, there was an interview after Tszyu lost to Hatton about a comeback fight and Tszyu said he was unsure but knew he could call up Floyd and get a fight. This was on Kostya's Tszyu's website. Not sure if it was directly with his webiste but it was posted on the website page for "interviews."


So you are telling me, they didn't want to risk their "superstar" status against Kostya Tszyu, who was KTFO by Phillips...yet Oscar didn't mind fighting TITO and HOPKINS? and Shane fougth Oscar, Forrest, and Winky?

Isn't past prime Shane set to fight Margarito?

Shane and Oscar are some of the top risk takers in their generation.


I'm a fan of Kostya Tszyu, but you are talking nonsense.

A lot does have to do with timing since he was set to face Oscar after Phillips, but lost to Phillips. He was set to possibly fight Floyd in a PPV fight but he lost to Hatton.

Then of course you havee all the injuries and time off he had to take.

He just wasn't active enough to get himself back on track.

Yes. That is what I'm telling you. A loss AT 140 to Tszyu would have seriously damaged the goods. Why take the risk if there are other paths to WW and beyond where the lucrative fights lay?

It's the truth....not "nonsense". But, Floyd's nuthuggers have always refused to acknowledge the truth. Oscar DeLaHoya himself stated it best: "Floyd is afraid to take risks." "Floyd is afraid to lose."

Nothing provides better evidence of DeLaHoya's statement than Floyd's dodging of Kostya Tszyu. How do you claim you're the best JrWW of all time, and not fight Tszyu who was the undisputed JrWW champion???