Tyson was never the same after he got out of jail

[Benny Leonard]

Tyson was a typical bully he would hit with everything he had and if you were still standing he wanted out

he was easily frustrated and did not have the mental make up to be to be a GREAT fighter he got found out when he stepped up his competition and he could not answer the questions those guys were posing after they took his best shots

he quit against McBride BTW

Funny, I remember Tyson going the distance more than a few times in his young days and kept fighting. And Ruddock talked trash to Mike in both fights.

Even Berbick came charging at Mike but once Mike caught him, like everybody else, they weren't the same.

When he had no answers it was when he was without Rooney. Most fighters need their trainers for answers and if it is not for that, it is support/coaching. Even Ali needed it.

I remember hearing the b.s. that if a fighter got up against Mike, that was it, which I always found funny because Tyson would just pounce them when they got up. It was later on that you could see he didn't want to be there anymore. And I'm glad you brought up McBride because it was pointed out in the fight that Tyson started to chew on his gloves like he did as an inexperienced amatuer. His whole career went backwards after Rooney...especially after prison. The fouling, the constant clinching, the one shot at a time, etc. There was no more progression after Rooney, it was only regression. Which is really odd when you look at it.


Your statement against McBride shows your lack of knowledge to investigate and think on your own.

Everybody knows Tyson was shot by then; Mentally and Physically. He was fighting for the money and didn't want to be there. And he had no choice but to fight since it was the only way to pay back Uncle Sam and help his kids. Like he said: "My career was over since 1990" and "I haven't wanted to fight since 1990." He didn't have the heart to fight anymore...that's something you need.

People change with time; with experience in life; through the wear and tear.

Arguello quit; Morales quit; Duran quit; Tszyu quit; and many others towards the end. Other fighters just allow their cornerman to stop the fight, which Tyson's corner said they did. Tyson was exhausted and you could see it when he fell down.

If you want to say he "quit" there is nothing wrong with it to a point...I think he quit a long time ago.

But, If he was a quiter, he could have quit against Douglas at any time. He could have quit after being punched by Tucker or Bruno or Ruddock...or when he came out of prison and didn't want to fight but did because he had to; he fought on. He was stunned badly against Holyfield if you remember but came back out the following round to be finished off being knocked out on his feet. Or Lewis, who beat the crap out of him. That fight was really the end of whatever was left of the shell. After that, Tyson didn't even want to take another shot. There was nothing left of him.

[Dynamite Kid]

Funny, I remember Tyson going the distance more than a few times in his young days and kept fighting. And Ruddock talked trash to Mike in both fights.

Even Berbick came charging at Mike but once Mike caught him, like everybody else, they weren't the same.

When he had no answers it was when he was without Rooney. Most fighters need their trainers for answers and if it is not for that, it is support/coaching. Even Ali needed it.

I remember hearing the b.s. that if a fighter got up against Mike, that was it, which I always found funny because Tyson would just pounce them when they got up. It was later on that you could see he didn't want to be there anymore. And I'm glad you brought up McBride because it was pointed out in the fight that Tyson started to chew on his gloves like he did as an inexperienced amatuer. His whole career went backwards after Rooney...especially after prison. The fouling, the constant clinching, the one shot at a time, etc. There was no more progression after Rooney, it was only regression. Which is really odd when you look at it.


Your statement against McBride shows your lack of knowledge to investigate and think on your own.

Everybody knows Tyson was shot by then; Mentally and Physically. He was fighting for the money and didn't want to be there. Like he said: "My career was over since 1990" and "I haven't wanted to fight since 1990." He didn't have the heart to fight anymore...that's something you need.

People change with time; with experience in life; through the wear and tear.

Arguello quit; Duran quit; Tszyu quit; and many others towards the end. Other fighters just allow their cornerman to stop the fight, which Tyson's corner said they did. Tyson was exhausted and you could see it when he fell down.

If you want to say he "quit" there is nothing wrong with it to a point...I think he quit a long time ago.

But, If he was a quiter, he could have quit against Douglas at any time. He could have quit after being punched by Tucker or Bruno or Ruddock...or when he came out of prison and didn't want to fight but did because he had to; he fought on. He was stunned badly against Holyfield if you remember but came back out the following round to be finished off being knocked out on his feet. Or Lewis, who beat the crap out of him. That fight was really the end of whatever was left of the shell. After that, Tyson didn't even want to take another shot. There was nothing left of him.

there are excuses at every junction of Tyson's career

he is,was overrated and he got exposed because he NEVER had the mental capacity to be a GREAT fighter period

you can believe what you want you wont change my opinion i dont buy all the excuses

[Benny Leonard]

there are excuses at every junction of Tyson's career

he is,was overrated and he got exposed because he NEVER had the mental capacity to be a GREAT fighter period

you can believe what you want you wont change my opinion i dont buy all the excuses

I separate excuses from reasons.

Excuses are based on lies that you conjure up.

Reasons are based more on fact that seems plausible.

The fact still remains, when he was with Rooney, he was undefeated and appeared to be a great fighter; without, he was a mess.

He didn't have the capacity to do it on his own.

Your the one who used the McBride fight

[Dynamite Kid]

I separate excuses from reasons.

Excuses are based on lies that you conjure up.

Reasons are based more on fact that seems plausible.

The fact still remains, when he was with Rooney, he was undefeated and appeared to be a great fighter; without, he was a mess.

He didn't have the capacity to do it on his own.

Your the one who used the McBride fight

all i know is what i see a guy who knocks over lesser oponents and then gets exposed when he fights the better fighters who can take his punches and a guy that bails when he is frustrated

he did quit against McBride am i not telling the truth ?shot or not he quit

[Benny Leonard]

all i know is what i see a guy who knocks over lesser oponents and then gets exposed when he fights the better fighters who can take his punches and a guy that bails when he is frustrated

he did quit against McBride am i not telling the truth ?shot or not he quit

Well than timing was an issue.
By the time Holyfield and the rest were coming on board, Mike was ready to leave; he had it Mentally with the game; you can go to the post-Spinks-press conference with that...and read the stories what was taking place outside of the ring.

What you can say is that Mike couldn't handle the pressure of being the youngest HW Champion, with the heavy media pressure, being one of if not the most popular athlete in the world, a ****ty marriage, and didn't know how to cope with the death of Cus and Jimmy...as well as his Mother years before. Without a proper guide, he was lost. Ali had Allah and the Nation of Islam as well as Dundee; Holyfield had Jesus and Georgie Benton (for a time); Others have their trainers, parents/family/friends; I think Jack Johnson might have done it himself, I'm unsure, although I think his wife supposedly helped him...have to check; Lewis had his mother as well as Emanuel; and so on.

Tyson said it himself: It just wasn't fun anymore and it was all about money after Cus and Jimmy died.

People are like Cars: they run on fuel but it matters which fuel you put in your car that makes it work well or not.

Like I said many times before: Everybody is given different tests in life so you must base it on that person and that test he has to go through.

For instance: I find it amazing that Kassim Ouma became Champion.

Tyson certainly had advantages all the way up to his first title with some drawbacks when Cus died; I don't deny that. Many fighters are not given such advantages and he blew it when he got rid of Rooney.


Fighters did take Tyson's punches in his younger days. Tucker took them as well as some others and Mike still won...so what do you have to say for those fights?

What about when Bruno stunned him and Mike could have caved and he didn't?

And the Ruddock fights?


You do realize that when a Fighter is not properly trained Mentally and Physically his chances of winning even against a decent opponent goes down, right?

Think Lewis vs Rahman I and then Rahman rematch.

Ali vs Spinks and then the rematch.

Many fighters have lost to lesser opponents because they were not preparing Mentally and Physicall for the fight.

The difference between them and Tyson was that Tyson had enough and didn't have an honest reason to stay in.

And did you notice any difference in Fighting ability from when he was with Rooney and without...as well as a character change?



Bully: I thought about his as well about others. Lennox: If you look at it, Lewis was bigger than 95% of his opponents; where Mike was the smaller guy in his fights. This doesn't say anything?

It's funny that a fighter in the lower weight classes, say 130 that moves up just 5 pounds gets credit, but a Heavyweight that his out-weighed by more, gets none.

We also have Hatton; another exposed fighter. He was doing well at 140 when he could bully past prime fighters, but once he stepped up his competition and moved up one division, he barely escaped a knockout loss to Collazzo. And then, he loses to a former lightweight, although Great, by getting bullied back and he fell apart.


I like Ali, but I always wonder why he didn't give George a rematch.

And for George, rumors of you avoiding both Shavers and Holmes doesn't look good; I hear Tucker as well.

The same goes for Tyson with the rumor he avoided Foreman.

And Calzaghe never moving up one division to fight Roy in his prime. One division isn't much considering Roy started his career at 154. Bullies take advantage of Shot fighters after knowing they could have met the Fighter in their prime.

Vitali: Quit against Chris Byrd.

Arguello, Duran, Tszyu, Morales, etc. All Quitters.


There are so many ways of looking at it all.



For McBride: again, you pick a time in Tyson's career where was completely shot and his corner did stop the fight even though I too think Tyson wanted out and may have asked for it. Tyson's trainer had stopped other fights quickly by throwing in the towel for his fighter so it wasn't a first.

But let's remember: Tyson didn't quit against Douglas when he could have; nor did he quit against Tucker when he was stunned, Bruno, Ruddock, Holyfield in a match he was losing and stunned badly only to come out the follow round to be knocked out on his feet; Lewis who battered him to the final finish of whatever was left; and Williams, where Tyson tore his knee and decided to go on.

He was never the same after prison,let alone after Spinks.

You can hold against him that he didn't know when to quit; he should have retired after Spinks since he gave the indication he was fed up and wanted out.

[Bobby Shaw]

I know this is obvious to everybody, but it is very clear from the way he fought after he was released that he was so much worse as a fighter.

He became so flat footed, and lost ALL his head movement. He was just a sitting target, very very flat on his feet, much slower, and less agile. All he did was just stand face to face with his opponents, and trade punches. No footwork whatsoever. He didn't bop and weave either, didn't duck under hooks , and come on top with a left hook of his own, or slip punches like he used to.


I wonder what sort of longevity he would have had, if hadn't gone to jail.
86-89 were his prime years, could he have prolonged that past 1995 perhaps?or would he have been on downslide after that.

When you compare footage of him before and after jail, it does become very apparent to the eye that he was just a shadow of his former self.

Neither was Monte Barrett after being fed prison food,he fell on the way to the ring

[Dynamite Kid]

Well than timing was an issue.
By the time Holyfield and the rest were coming on board, Mike was ready to leave; he had it Mentally with the game; you can go to the post-Spinks-press conference with that...and read the stories what was taking place outside of the ring.

What you can say is that Mike couldn't handle the pressure of being the youngest HW Champion, with the heavy media pressure, being one of if not the most popular athlete in the world, a ****ty marriage, and didn't know how to cope with the death of Cus and Jimmy...as well as his Mother years before. Without a proper guide, he was lost. Ali had Allah and the Nation of Islam as well as Dundee; Holyfield had Jesus and Georgie Benton (for a time); Others have their trainers, parents/family/friends; I think Jack Johnson might have done it himself, I'm unsure, although I think his wife supposedly helped him...have to check; Lewis had his mother as well as Emanuel; and so on.

Tyson said it himself: It just wasn't fun anymore and it was all about money after Cus and Jimmy died.

People are like Cars: they run on fuel but it matters which fuel you put in your car that makes it work well or not.

Like I said many times before: Everybody is given different tests in life so you must base it on that person and that test he has to go through.

For instance: I find it amazing that Kassim Ouma became Champion.

Tyson certainly had advantages all the way up to his first title with some drawbacks when Cus died; I don't deny that. Many fighters are not given such advantages and he blew it when he got rid of Rooney.


Fighters did take Tyson's punches in his younger days. Tucker took them as well as some others and Mike still won...so what do you have to say for those fights?

What about when Bruno stunned him and Mike could have caved and he didn't?

And the Ruddock fights?


You do realize that when a Fighter is not properly trained Mentally and Physically his chances of winning even against a decent opponent goes down, right?

Think Lewis vs Rahman I and then Rahman rematch.

Ali vs Spinks and then the rematch.

Many fighters have lost to lesser opponents because they were not preparing Mentally and Physicall for the fight.

The difference between them and Tyson was that Tyson had enough and didn't have an honest reason to stay in.

And did you notice any difference in Fighting ability from when he was with Rooney and without...as well as a character change?



Bully: I thought about his as well about others. Lennox: If you look at it, Lewis was bigger than 95% of his opponents; where Mike was the smaller guy in his fights. This doesn't say anything?

It's funny that a fighter in the lower weight classes, say 130 that moves up just 5 pounds gets credit, but a Heavyweight that his out-weighed by more, gets none.

We also have Hatton; another exposed fighter. He was doing well at 140 when he could bully past prime fighters, but once he stepped up his competition and moved up one division, he barely escaped a knockout loss to Collazzo. And then, he loses to a former lightweight, although Great, by getting bullied back and he fell apart.


I like Ali, but I always wonder why he didn't give George a rematch.

And for George, rumors of you avoiding both Shavers and Holmes doesn't look good; I hear Tucker as well.

The same goes for Tyson with the rumor he avoided Foreman.

And Calzaghe never moving up one division to fight Roy in his prime. One division isn't much considering Roy started his career at 154. Bullies take advantage of Shot fighters after knowing they could have met the Fighter in their prime.

Vitali: Quit against Chris Byrd.

Arguello, Duran, Tszyu, Morales, etc. All Quitters.


There are so many ways of looking at it all.



For McBride: again, you pick a time in Tyson's career where was completely shot and his corner did stop the fight even though I too think Tyson wanted out and may have asked for it. Tyson's trainer had stopped other fights quickly by throwing in the towel for his fighter so it wasn't a first.

But let's remember: Tyson didn't quit against Douglas when he could have; nor did he quit against Tucker when he was stunned, Bruno, Ruddock, Holyfield in a match he was losing and stunned badly only to come out the follow round to be knocked out on his feet; Lewis who battered him to the final finish of whatever was left; and Williams, where Tyson tore his knee and decided to go on.

He was never the same after prison,let alone after Spinks.

You can hold against him that he didn't know when to quit; he should have retired after Spinks since he gave the indication he was fed up and wanted out.

these long winded post are why i believe you are making excuses it can all be said in one sentence he got beat by the best HW of his era cause he was overrated end of story

[big paulie]

Tyson may well have been 50% of what he was when he got out of prison but that combo that stopped Bruno to regain the title was truly world class!

[Mugwump]

Putting Bruno away for a second time didn't require 'Prime' abilities. The moment the bell rang it was obvious he was absolutely terrified. He just stood there like a rabbit trapped in an onrushing car's headlights - waiting for the end to come.

All the more confusing when you consider the sheer size and physique of Bruno. The man had less reason than most Tyson opponents to be scared (his knockout percentage was phenomenal and he had the kind of jab most boxers would kill for).

[Benny Leonard]

these long winded post are why i believe you are making excuses it can all be said in one sentence he got beat by the best HW of his era cause he was overrated end of story

Yes, because we all know only one sentence would be great for your lawyer to use in trial...or a writer who wants to write history books, etc.

He's guilty your honor, because I said so.

The British lost to the Yanks because they, well, they lost.

Ali got beat by Frazier because Frazier was the better Fighter. Yeah, maybe on that night, but there were reasons.

Lewis got KTFO twice by the better Man...yes, I understand where you are getting at and maybe you are right. In Nature, if you really want to look at it, she doesn't care for reasons and/or excuses. Who is standing is what counts. It's very Black and White.