Tyson was never the same after he got out of jail

[Benny Leonard]

Sums it up:



First part of this was sad

[Silencers]

I didn't expect it either with Torres, but I saw it in a video; not sure which one; but it was Torres saying he told Mike. I was like "WTF"

Cayton and Rooney. Jacobs died and that was the end according to many. After Cus died, Jimmy was next in line for being Mike's best friend; the person he went to. Cayton was a great manager according to Rooney but it was Jim that talked to Mike like buddies. Cayton was all business. Cayton was the one that set-up a trust for Mike worth millions...this was the trust that Robin went after. Nobody could touch it but Mike...not even Cayton and Rooney. Much different than when Don took over.

Rooney: I heard he liked ******** and drinking...but it got way out of hand after Mike left according to sources and rumors. It would be interesting to know all the facts; what's true, what's not.

That whole group was kind of "off.": Rooney, Atlas and Tyson. Crazy-smart-flawed people. And Cus was a bit off as well from what stories say.

My mistake, I typed that out real quick, mixed Cayton and Jacobs up. Once Jacobs died, Tyson went downhill, King them persuaded him to leave Cayton which was his last connection to the old group, King really screwed Tyson over, I think he also told Tyson to hire Snowell.

Rooney got arrested a few times for DWIs I believe.

Whether they were off or not they produced a fighting machine in Mike Tyson.

[Benny Leonard]

My mistake, I typed that out real quick, mixed Cayton and Jacobs up. Once Jacobs died, Tyson went downhill, King them persuaded him to leave Cayton which was his last connection to the old group, King really screwed Tyson over, I think he also told Tyson to hire Snowell.

Rooney got arrested a few times for DWIs I believe.

Whether they were off or not they produced a fighting machine in Mike Tyson.

The real messed up part, and I forget who said it, even though I think I know who, but anyway, King hired richard giachetti, who according to this interview, thought Cus D'A'amato was a phony. I wonder if Tyson knew richie's thoughts on Cus.

Tyson was with the wrong people after Rooney.



Most brilliant people are "off" anyway. Look at Bobby Fischer.
I'm not saying that they are brilliant, because I don't know, but they were good at what they did for a bit of time.

I think Atlas is/was probably a very good trainer, which Michael Moorer backs up as well as Briggs, but I think something was "off" with him that prevented him from being a great trainer.

[Silencers]

The real messed up part, and I forget who said it, even though I think I know who, but anyway, King hired richard giachetti, who according to this interview, thought Cus D'A'amato was a phony. I wonder if Tyson knew richie's thoughts on Cus.

Tyson was with the wrong people after Rooney.



Most brilliant people are "off" anyway. Look at Bobby Fischer.
I'm not saying that they are brilliant, because I don't know, but they were good at what they did for a bit of time.

I think Atlas is/was probably a very good trainer, which Michael Moorer backs up as well as Briggs, but I think something was "off" with him that prevented him from being a great trainer.

Tyson was manipulated left, right and center, I doubt he knew Giachetti's feelings about D'Amtto. Giachetti was a pretty good trainer though.

Atlas was known as a control freak which was probably why not that many fighters worked with him.

[LEFTYGUNZZ]

He was never the same after he left Kevin Rooney.

Siliencers pretty muched summed it up with one sentence fellas. He was never the same after he left Rooney and the team that Cus provided for him. He was a force that needed some kind of control in his life and the money and the fame lead him into depression. He didn't trust anyone else in his life and thought only that people were his friend or wanted to be in his life because of his accomplishments and not who he was inside. As for his boxing skills his anger dominated him his thurst for the fast life and his decision making was dramatically affect by it. overall he self destructed. He was defintely on this path before he went to jail. You could see it in interviews and in his actions. The marriage to Robin and the embarassment of his reputation in the public eyes. The split from Rooney and the implementation of Don King in his life. He was well on his way to destruction....Lefty

[Benny Leonard]

Tyson was manipulated left, right and center, I doubt he knew Giachetti's feelings about D'Amtto. Giachetti was a pretty good trainer though.

Atlas was known as a control freak which was probably why not that many fighters worked with him.

Yes, Giachetti might have been aa good trainer, he did train Holmes, and I do remember him telling Mike to use his jab more and use combinations, but if you look at Mike in the Ruddock fight and so on, his head was down and he always had that "Why the "F" am I here" look on his face. He wasn't listening.

Atlas got through to him and Rooney got through to him because they were connected with Cus; plus they knew enough about Mike to help him out. I do think Atlas's perception of Mike stopped at 15 when he left, so Rooney was the better man to get info about Mike. Mike was maturing with Rooney; with Atlas, I don't know how much.
Anyway, That was the team.

Somebody that works for Mercedes might be real good working on a Mercedes but hire him to work on a Formula 1 Ferrari, and it might not work. Mike was a Ferrari. I remember hearing how "sensitive/delicate" a Formula 1 Ferrari is: any little thing out of whack and the machine doesn't work...that's why you have a team of brilliant people taking care of the Car.

I hear it's the same with horses: If you have Secretariat, you get the best/right Jockey for that particular horse.


I think certain fighters, like Ali, don't need that type of care and instructions so they are a step above in a way. But Ali was far from perfect as well. Outside the ring, he let himself be taken advantage of from the Nation of Islam and was racist towards Frazier.

[Silencers]

Siliencers pretty muched summed it up with one sentence fellas. He was never the same after he left Rooney and the team that Cus provided for him. He was a force that needed some kind of control in his life and the money and the fame lead him into depression. He didn't trust anyone else in his life and thought only that people were his friend or wanted to be in his life because of his accomplishments and not who he was inside. As for his boxing skills his anger dominated him his thurst for the fast life and his decision making was dramatically affect by it. overall he self destructed. He was defintely on this path before he went to jail. You could see it in interviews and in his actions. The marriage to Robin and the embarassment of his reputation in the public eyes. The split from Rooney and the implementation of Don King in his life. He was well on his way to destruction....Lefty

Exactly.

Yes, Giachetti might have been aa good trainer, he did train Holmes, and I do remember him telling Mike to use his jab more and use combinations, but if you look at Mike in the Ruddock fight and so on, his head was down and he always had that "Why the "F" am I here" look on his face. He wasn't listening.

Atlas got through to him and Rooney got through to him because they were connected with Cus; plus they knew enough about Mike to help him out. I do think Atlas's perception of Mike stopped at 15 when he left, so Rooney was the better man to get info about Mike. Mike was maturing with Rooney; with Atlas, I don't know how much.
Anyway, That was the team.

Somebody that works for Mercedes might be real good working on a Mercedes but hire him to work on a Formula 1 Ferrari, and it might not work. Mike was a Ferrari. I remember hearing how "sensitive/delicate" a Formula 1 Ferrari is: any little thing out of whack and the machine doesn't work...that's why you have a team of brilliant people taking care of the Car.

I hear it's the same with horses: If you have Secretariat, you get the best/right Jockey for that particular horse.

Tyson himself said that he should have just retired after the Douglas fight, he just didn't have it in him anymore to be that ferocious fighter.

You're probably right about Rooney being more informative about Tyson the man but Atlas gives the juicier stories so more people interview him than Rooney.

And I agree, Tyson was a very delicate person mentally, he needed those people there for support meaning, Rooney, Jacobs and even Cayton.

[Benny Leonard]

Exactly.



Tyson himself said that he should have just retired after the Douglas fight, he just didn't have it in him anymore to be that ferocious fighter.

You're probably right about Rooney being more informative about Tyson the man but Atlas gives the juicier stories so more people interview him than Rooney.

And I agree, Tyson was a very delicate person mentally, he needed those people there for support meaning, Rooney, Jacobs and even Cayton.

I like to go by Rooney because Atlas keeps thinking of the 15 year old that he left and not the years that Tyson had with Rooney to mature through teaching with further learning from Cus as well as Jacobs being there.

It's like Mike's fighting ability: He got better from 15 to 18. From 18 to 20 and from 20 to 23. He kept improving. He was more confident when he turned pro from amatuers and when he won the title, you could see it and hear it in the interviews his confidence was going up. Atlas was with him while Tyson was still young, still learning, still unsure about himself. I like to say, once Mike started wearing his black shorts and black shoes, he was Iron Mike Tyson.


I think it was before Douglas.

Tyson-Spinks post fight press conference:

5:50



8:30

[Silencers]

I like to go by Rooney because Atlas keeps thinking of the 15 year old that he left and not the years that Tyson had with Rooney to mature through teaching with further learning from Cus as well as Jacobs being there.

It's like Mike's fighting ability: He got better from 15 to 18. From 18 to 20 and from 20 to 23. He kept improving. He was more confident when he turned pro from amatuers and when he won the title, you could see it and hear it in the interviews his confidence was going up. Atlas was with him while Tyson was still young, still learning, still unsure about himself. I like to say, once Mike started wearing his black shorts and black shoes, he was Iron Mike Tyson.


I think it was before Douglas.

Tyson-Spinks post fight press conference:

5:50



8:30

He definitely gained more confidence as he matured, but I think on the inside he wasn't as confident as he appeared to be in front of the public.

[Ben_London]

A lot of crap gets said about Tyson. Some people chip in with comments like "Tyson was finished after the Berbick fight".