Assessing Hopkins vs. Pavlik

[Mr. Ryan]

I agree and said the same thing while not taking a great fight away from Bernard. BUT - anyone who has watched Kelly, knows that wasn't him in there. Maybe it was just because it was Bernard, maybe the weight, maybe the sickness. I really don't know. That fight featured, IMO, Bernard Hopkins and someone who looked like Kelly Pavlik.

Jeff Lacy didn't look like Jeff Lacy against Joe Calzaghe.

Hector Camacho didn't look like Hector Camacho against Julio Cesar Chavez.

Felix Trinidad didn't look like Felix Trinidad against Bernard Hopkins.

A better fighter will do that to someone. Nothing in boxing is accidental but the result of your adversary's will. If a fighter doesn't perform like he does normally, it's because his opponent wouldn't let him.

[THE REED]

Jeff Lacy didn't look like Jeff Lacy against Joe Calzaghe.

Hector Camacho didn't look like Hector Camacho against Julio Cesar Chavez.

Felix Trinidad didn't look like Felix Trinidad against Bernard Hopkins.

A better fighter will do that to someone. Nothing in boxing is accidental but the result of your adversary's will. If a fighter doesn't perform like he does normally, it's because his opponent wouldn't let him.

or because hes fighting at 2 weight classes above where hes ever fought before

[Nacho_Analstain]

He walks around much bigger than 160, the weight did nothing but help him, he had more time to concentrate on technique and strategy when not having to lose as much weight.

Hopkins beat him with little to no advantages, Pavlik isn't a technical smart fighter ... hes a straight up come forward fighter who didn't know how to deal with the smartness of an old boxing wizard.

Pavlik also said he felt better than ever in training camp ... he said his punches felt better than ever, he felt faster and more powerful than ever and he also said what i mentioned ... he had more time to work on strategy.

The only thing that could have been to his disadvantage is if he underestimated Bernard ... I have a sneaky feeling he did.

[El Dominicano]

so u think it makes no difference in kellys fighting whether hes at 160 or 170?

In all honesty, NO...don't think so. Pavlik couldn't land a 1-2 because B-Hop is smart enough to know when to clinch or he'd simply move to the side. Neither was Pavlik gonna beat B-Hop on the insde...Considering B-Hop knows all the tricks in the book and Pavlik doesn't even throw short hooks which didn't help. All in all, B-Hop has faced better punchers then Pavlik...I don't see how Pavlik could have possibly won...regardless of weight

[bsrizpac]

I just disagree.... That wasn't Pavlik in there... and it wasnt JUST because he was fighting Hopkins...

Although F-R-K-O and other fans are hyping hopkins over pavlik to make Joe look better, I have to agree with them. Not because of Joe but simply because size didn't seem to play any factor at all in that fight and how it went about. (just like how Hopkins beat Tito with skill, not size).

Other than the Ten pounds possibly slowing Hopkins down, I can't see how you can make any argument that Pavlik would do better at a lower weight.

Bernard was pretty good at Middleweight if you recall.

[Lord13]

Pavlik was clearly drugged.

[Mr. Ryan]

or because hes fighting at 2 weight classes above where hes ever fought before

Damn.

They should have told him that in the contract before he signed it, right?

After everyone loses, they weren't the same for that fight or they didn't get up for the fight or they were sick or the size difference was too much.

This guy was talking about how Joe Calzaghe was running from him, yet the size difference wouldn't be too much against Calzaghe? He'd be moving up to 170+ for that fight also.

Everyone has a story.

[El Dominicano]

Damn.

They should have told him that in the contract before he signed it, right?

After everyone loses, they weren't the same for that fight or they didn't get up for the fight or they were sick or the size difference was too much.

This guy was talking about how Joe Calzaghe was running from him, yet the size difference wouldn't be too much against Calzaghe? He'd be moving up to 170+ for that fight also.
Everyone has a story.

Good point. The hell! Why didn't I think of that.

[THE REED]

thats fine... im honestly to exhausted to debate right now... my mind skills are taking time off today... ill just agree to disagree... although i know hopkins ha da lot to do with it, i think the weight definitely slowed him and his workrate down... but thats where ill leave it

[Ray Ray]

Reed..I gotta disagree with you on this one...I think its safe to say that Pavlik has problems with fighters that move...We've say that in the first Taylor\Pavlik fight...He was getting frustrated with Taylor (at least from my perspective) I thought Pavlik was going to win myself (due to Hopkins stamina issues in his past 2 or 3 fights) but I cant take this win away from Hopkins...You cant really say he didnt look like himself when Hopkins is known for making fighters fight an ugly fight...Pavlik didnt have to come at the 170 lb limit...He could have gotten down to a weight he was more comfortable at (160)