Assessing Hopkins vs. Pavlik

[Mr. Ryan]

Good point. The hell! Why didn't I think of that.

It's funny, these guys walk into situations with built-in excuses. If they were so concerned about losing, why would they take the risk? If Pavlik won then Hopkins wouldn't have been too big, would he?

Even Pavlik said it himself, that he had no idea how to handle the lateral movement. That has nothing to do with size, that's agility and speed. More than that, that's experience.

Bigger fighters usually mean bigger targets, why wasn't Pavlik landing his best punches? It's funny what happens to someone the second that start missing. Mentally, they go on the fritz.

Can anyone truly lose without an excuse?

[mspiegelo]

Im not trying to take away from Bernards win...

But, is it safe to say that was NOT Kelly Pavlik in the ring at 170 pounds?

If the fight was at 160, would we have seen a different fight?

well being that bernard cant make that weight anymore, it would have been a different fight. one that got canceled when bhop came in at 167.

bhops body cant do 160 like it used to. i think he was about done around the time of the jt fights, though i still think he did enough to win both of those fights, especially the first. i talked to a top cut man in the biz today who did the salita fight last week and he knows bhop pretty well. he said that bhop walks around at around 200 pounds.

according to al haymon, so did jt before the first pavlik fight, but not because of his frame... it was due to an indulgence in that southern pork, etc....

prime hopkins at 160 beats any pavlik at any weight.

[PrettyBoyFloyd7]

it's Safe To Say That Pavlik Is Much More Dominant Against 160 Pound Fighters Where His Size Advantage Makes Him A Significantly More Imposing Figure. It's Hard To Overpower Larger Fighters.

It's Also Safe To Say That The Fight Wouldn't Happen At 160 Since Hopkins Wasn't Going To Go Down In Weight.

Pavlik Saw An Opportunity To Make A Lot Of Money Fighting An Older Fighter Coming Off A Loss And Add To His Resume'. He Accepted The Risk And Paid The Price.

That About Sums It All Up Pretty Well.

[bsrizpac]

Pavlik was clearly drugged.

Do you realize what a racist moron you are?

[RodBarker]

Jeff Lacy didn't look like Jeff Lacy against Joe Calzaghe.

Hector Camacho didn't look like Hector Camacho against Julio Cesar Chavez.

Felix Trinidad didn't look like Felix Trinidad against Bernard Hopkins.

A better fighter will do that to someone. Nothing in boxing is accidental but the result of your adversary's will. If a fighter doesn't perform like he does normally, it's because his opponent wouldn't let him.

So your saying a pro athlete never has a prep that goes off and they always turns up at their best regardless of fighting outside a weight they always fight at , its not always the opponent that forces a bad night .

[Mr. Ryan]

So your saying a pro athlete never has a prep that goes off and they always turns up at their best regardless of fighting outside a weight they always fight at , its not always the opponent that forces a bad night .

If we believe every fighter who loses or underperforms has a valid excuse, then we might as well implement a contract stipulation allowing a fighter to call mulligans on every loss and strike them from the record and order immediate rematches.

We can't. Boxing is a solo sport, there are no teams. You have to be accountable for yourself at all times because it's your ass out there.

Pavlik understood the risk, he just felt he could take advantage of a 43-year old fighter with a name and make some easy money in the mean time.

If he failed to take into account the risk involved in moving up in weight to pounce on a fighter he himself said he underestimated and thought was over the hill, shame on him and no one else.

I'm sorry if I offend anyone with my statements but I'm not in the business of being an apologist.

[RodBarker]

Jeff Lacy didn't look like Jeff Lacy against Joe Calzaghe.

Hector Camacho didn't look like Hector Camacho against Julio Cesar Chavez.

Felix Trinidad didn't look like Felix Trinidad against Bernard Hopkins.

A better fighter will do that to someone. Nothing in boxing is accidental but the result of your adversary's will. If a fighter doesn't perform like he does normally, it's because his opponent wouldn't let him.

If we believe every fighter who loses or underperforms has a valid excuse, then we might as well implement a contract stipulation allowing a fighter to call mulligans on every loss and strike them from the record and order immediate rematches.

We can't. Boxing is a solo sport, there are no teams. You have to be accountable for yourself at all times because it's your ass out there.

Pavlik understood the risk, he just felt he could take advantage of a 43-year old fighter with a name and make some easy money in the mean time.

If he failed to take into account the risk involved in moving up in weight to pounce on a fighter he himself said he underestimated and thought was over the hill, shame on him and no one else.

I'm sorry if I offend anyone with my statements but I'm not in the business of being an apologist.

Still doesnt mean fighters dont have bad nights , I think to flatly say all fighters that say something was off with them as being just a flat lie or excuse is draconian you cant throw a blanket over them all , it happens in world championship sport all the time .
I tend to look at the fighters performance on the night in areas of timing snap endurance speed as these things should all be there if the athlete had a good prep or is in the zone , when a fighter tires when he normally doesnt , when a fighters punches are slower and labored , when a fighters timing is like slow motion , with some performances its clear something was amiss , if a champion racehorse performed as badly as what Pavlik did it would be put under the microscope to find what went wrong .

[MELLY-MEL...]

Still doesnt mean fighters dont have bad nights , I think to flatly say all fighters that say something was off with them as being just a flat lie or excuse is draconian you cant throw a blanket over them all , it happens in world championship sport all the time .
I tend to look at the fighters performance on the night in areas of timing snap endurance speed as these things should all be there if the athlete had a good prep or is in the zone , when a fighter tires when he normally doesnt , when a fighters punches are slower and labored , when a fighters timing is like slow motion , with some performances its clear something was amiss , if a champion racehorse performed as badly as what Pavlik did it would be put under the microscope to find what went wrong .

good post man.

[Ryn0]

I think hopkins had everything to do with it, he offset Pavliks workrate and power punches.

It wasn't that Pavlik was doing averagely in punch numbers he was doing alot worse. He normally throws alot of shots he threw hardly any and landed NOTHING significant.

[Mr. Ryan]

Still doesnt mean fighters dont have bad nights , I think to flatly say all fighters that say something was off with them as being just a flat lie or excuse is draconian you cant throw a blanket over them all , it happens in world championship sport all the time .
I tend to look at the fighters performance on the night in areas of timing snap endurance speed as these things should all be there if the athlete had a good prep or is in the zone , when a fighter tires when he normally doesnt , when a fighters punches are slower and labored , when a fighters timing is like slow motion , with some performances its clear something was amiss , if a champion racehorse performed as badly as what Pavlik did it would be put under the microscope to find what went wrong .

Everyone has bad nights, but to rely simply on these claims to write off losses as bad performances.

Did not Jeff Lacy chalk up his poor performance with Joe Calzaghe as a bad night? I hear this all the time, doesn't make it true. Roy Jones said he'd beat Calzaghe if not for the cut, doesn't make it true.

If a guy tires prematurely and it happens to coincide with him taking a fierce pasting to the head and body and a low connect percentage, does one not have to do with the other?

As I've said before, there are no accidents in boxing and everyone has to be accountable for themselves. If you lose, no excuses will strike it from the record.

In the words of Jermain Taylor, "You lost, take your loss like a man, come back and fight better."