both arthur abraham and felix sturm are paper champs

[Flawless 2]

Strum lost to Oscar IMO. AA beat win is over Edison M and took him 2 fights to beat him and the first one got his jaw broken. Pavlik first shot against Edison M Ko his ass out

[Zarco]

I still dont understand how Sturm is a bum if he has awesome boxing skills. Yes he gets a little protected but you cant ignore his skills.

[Zocalo]

Yeah they are bot that doesn't mean they aren't great fighters. Abraham has shown enough to warrent a title shot vs Pavlik.

[roundingace]

Pav and AA will meet sometime in 09. After thoroughly destroying him, Pav will likely move up to SMW given there is nothing more for him and Sturm would want no parts of him at MW. SMW should be a nice fit and if he carries the weight well, LHW is even a possibility given his size. There is no way of knowing for sure, but the Hop fight should tell part of the weight debate. Granted, Hop poses little power risk, so it won't tell much, just if he can still perform at the rate and with the same power as he does/did at 160. I think after AA, he should take a 168 challenger or maybe even Froch then call out Kessler. JC would be nice and make a HUGE fight but RJJ should beat him down so it won't happen, and I have said this many times, Pav's career will be fine without JC.

[lparm]

lets be real here i saw a discussion about the 2 having padded records..take a second a think neither 1 fought a champion to win their respective belts.the only reason they are champs are because of corrupt santioning bodies that stripped jermain taylor because he rematched b-hop!!!they both won vacated belts that were rightfully jt's//in my opinion theirs only 1`middleweight champ and his name is kelly pavlik!!!!!!!!!!! authur is the #1 contender followed by felix sturm

I agree neither beat the true champ to win their worthless trinkets but honesly I'd give both a good chance to beat Taylor. With Kelly as the champ, sturm has a better chance that prince arthur especially considering the damaged jaw the hard hitting Pavlik will test from the first bell.

[ragingvic]

I agree neither beat the true champ to win their worthless trinkets but honesly I'd give both a good chance to beat Taylor. With Kelly as the champ, sturm has a better chance that prince arthur especially considering the damaged jaw the hard hitting Pavlik will test from the first bell.

You mean the damaged jaw which took more then 7 rounds of hits from " Ill knock you out of the ring" Edison Miranda and didnt warrent a single knockdown. Sturm has a better chance of becoming the president of the US then beating either Pavlik or AA.

[ragingvic]

Pav and AA will meet sometime in 09. After thoroughly destroying him, Pav will likely move up to SMW given there is nothing more for him and Sturm would want no parts of him at MW. SMW should be a nice fit and if he carries the weight well, LHW is even a possibility given his size. There is no way of knowing for sure, but the Hop fight should tell part of the weight debate. Granted, Hop poses little power risk, so it won't tell much, just if he can still perform at the rate and with the same power as he does/did at 160. I think after AA, he should take a 168 challenger or maybe even Froch then call out Kessler. JC would be nice and make a HUGE fight but RJJ should beat him down so it won't happen, and I have said this many times, Pav's career will be fine without JC.

Id be careful before writing off AA. He has more power then anyone Pav has faced and he can take a shot better then anyone Pav has faced. And Pavlik isnt going to be boxing circles around him. Don't get me wrong Im not saying that AA wil win, but Im saying the matchup is a hell of a lot closer then people think.

[lparm]

You mean the damaged jaw which took more then 7 rounds of hits from " Ill knock you out of the ring" Edison Miranda and didnt warrent a single knockdown. Sturm has a better chance of becoming the president of the US then beating either Pavlik or AA.

princess arthur's overrated, when he fights a champ like Pav and wins I'll give him credit. But instead he went after Miranda when he was vulnerable from the massive beatdown Kelly gave him. Pavlik ruined Miranda and prince arthur picked up the scraps, before you arthur nuthuggers flip out and choke on your own rage wait until your boy gets in the ring with the 1 true mw champ before spouting off about how good the little princess is.

[ragingvic]

princess arthur's overrated, when he fights a champ like Pav and wins I'll give him credit. But instead he went after Miranda when he was vulnerable from the massive beatdown Kelly gave him. Pavlik ruined Miranda and prince arthur picked up the scraps, before you arthur nuthuggers flip out and choke on your own rage wait until your boy gets in the ring with the 1 true mw champ before spouting off about how good the little princess is.

This isnt about nuthugging its about dicussion. First of all you thaughts on the Miranda fight are bull****. Everyone was saying Mirand got robbed in Germnay and AA is nothing. Miranda was claiming he felt soo good at SMW that he would ko everyone from AA to Pavlik if they dared move up in weight. To prove all the doubters that he was real he took a fight with Miranda at 166 and he took the fight in Mirandas backyard so there would be no questionable judging. As for your second point. dont forget that before Pavlik faught JT he the most legit opponent he had beaten was Miranda (not very different from AA now.) By your logic its ****** to like a fighter before he has become a champ, I gues I was wrong for following Pavliks career and claiming he would beat JT.
Lastly: Please dont emberass yourself with the whole Pavlik ruined Miranda bull****, watch Mirandas fights after Pavlik and show me where you see a ruined fighter.

[Tobi.G]

lets be real here i saw a discussion about the 2 having padded records..take a second a think neither 1 fought a champion to win their respective belts.the only reason they are champs are because of corrupt santioning bodies that stripped jermain taylor because he rematched b-hop!!!they both won vacated belts that were rightfully jt's//in my opinion theirs only 1`middleweight champ and his name is kelly pavlik!!!!!!!!!!! authur is the #1 contender followed by felix sturm

Of course Pavlik is THE champ cause there can only be one champ in each division but that why we need Abraham vs. Pavlik! Abraham made a verry big statement in the second Mirandafight and he flew over to the US for that! I want that fight! I want to know whos the best! Sturm has no chance to beat either of them, hes really not at world champion level.