both arthur abraham and felix sturm are paper champs

[lparm]

how was he not the same guy???

he talked BIGGG before the fight like he was the same guy.. he was in better shape before the fight than he had ever been... i didnt see a physical or mental break down.

you can't seriously say that after one KO loss to Pavlik he was shot or somethin??

if thats the case then he should have 100% retired after an even worse KO by Abraham.

I dont buy the BS that Miranda wasnt the same after Pavlik... that is just taking alotttttt away from a true true champ with serious power in Abraham

Miranda lasted 12 with arthur and busted him up the 1st time, then along comes Kelly who walked through everything he threw and gave Miranda at that time the worst beating of his career. You can say I'm wrong that's fine it's your opinion, my opinion is that Pavlik damaged Miranda mentally. Lets get this straight right now AA is not the true champ he never has been the true champ, he holds a trinket that was taken from the real champ by the alphabet boys, at 160 the only "true" champ is Pavlik, I'd call arthur a strap holder.

[lparm]

Agreed, Miranda was the "hardest puncher in the MW division" and he was going to beat Pav rather easily....Well....we saw how that went down. Yes, Pav gave Miranda a thorough beatdown and he was not himself in the first OR the second fight with AA because of it.

Thanks for the support but the 1st abraham fight was before Kelly fought him, but I agree in the 2nd fight Miranda wasn't mentally the same guy. He reacted alot differently when he was backed up and tagged by arthur. IMO I'd say Kelly damaged him mentally.

[VanesBoxing]

Miranda lasted 12 with arthur and busted him up the 1st time, then along comes Kelly who walked through everything he threw and gave Miranda at that time the worst beating of his career. You can say I'm wrong that's fine it's your opinion, my opinion is that Pavlik damaged Miranda mentally. Lets get this straight right now AA is not the true champ he never has been the true champ, he holds a trinket that was taken from the real champ by the alphabet boys, at 160 the only "true" champ is Pavlik, I'd call arthur a strap holder.

Arthur IS a TRUE CHAMP to me because he has defended the IBF successfully now I believe 7 or so times... many guys have come at him HARD to de-throne him yet have walked away empty handed.

a strap holder holds it one or two times... an IBF WORLD CHAMP hangs on to his belt for 7 fights and a few years.

[BattlingNelson]

Abraham and Sturm are paperchamps.

At LHW Chad Dawson is a paperchamp. So is Joe Calzaghe, Adrian Diaconu, Hugo Garay and Antonio Tarver. At LHW the real champ is Zsolt Erdei.

[lparm]

Arthur IS a TRUE CHAMP to me because he has defended the IBF successfully now I believe 7 or so times... many guys have come at him HARD to de-throne him yet have walked away empty handed.

a strap holder holds it one or two times... an IBF WORLD CHAMP hangs on to his belt for 7 fights and a few years.

A classic nuthugger post.

[VanesBoxing]

Thanks for the support but the 1st abraham fight was before Kelly fought him, but I agree in the 2nd fight Miranda wasn't mentally the same guy. He reacted alot differently when he was backed up and tagged by arthur. IMO I'd say Kelly damaged him mentally.

well if thats to be argued then maybe we can also say...

Abraham damaged Miranda quite a bit in the first fight before Miranda went on to be KOd by Pavlik... and yes Miranda was wobbled by power shots more than once in Germany.

[VanesBoxing]

A classic nuthugger post.

classic "little boy" side comes out from an otherwise decent poster...

[lparm]

well if thats to be argued then maybe we can also say...

Abraham damaged Miranda quite a bit in the first fight before Miranda went on to be KOd by Pavlik... and yes Miranda was wobbled by power shots more than once in Germany.

and the hugging continues.....hahahaha

[roundingace]

Thanks for the support but the 1st abraham fight was before Kelly fought him, but I agree in the 2nd fight Miranda wasn't mentally the same guy. He reacted alot differently when he was backed up and tagged by arthur. IMO I'd say Kelly damaged him mentally.

That's what I meant, my bad. They faced off to the bell, then comes Kelly - BOOM - KTFO, then they rematch and, suprise, suprise, BOOM - KTFO. I just honestly feel that Kelly is going to be too active and too strong for AA when he finally opens up. He WILL get caught and I don't see any reason, with a 90% KO ratio, that he will still be on his feet at that final bell.

[VanesBoxing]

and the hugging continues.....hahahaha

wowwwwwww lollllll

you feel better now givin me red karma for difference of opinion???

you really are a chump, figured you for more of a man.

run along kiddo...