Jermain Taylor: "I Want To Make an Impact at 168"

[dstew]

How? I basically said Roy was garbage. As my man Hitman pointed out to me, RJJ is actually one of a small group of fighters that Calzaghe has a realistic shot at stopping, and is the only one he could get any credit for, being as RJJ is RJJ and the others would be lower level guys. Hence the 'out with a ****'.

If Calzaghe believes the theory you laid out, he is daft.

[Dan...]

Is it really that difficult for people to understand that boxing is about making money? I never criticise fighters for taking matchups that earn higher pay days. If he could have got more money against Pavlik he would have fought him. He can't, so he didn't. It is an occupation.

[abadger]

If Calzaghe believes the theory you laid out, he is daft.

I don't think so. I can see the appeal of putting a one sided beatdown on Roy Jones Jr in your final fight as a professional. Such a thing would of course boost Joe's Stateside profile massively too, as casual fans don't know jack-****, and of course it would both increase calls for Joe to fight Pavlik and maximise revenue should such a thing actually happen...

[Dirk Diggler UK]

DDUK, get back to me when you can defend Calzaghe outright, or even better, are big enough to face the facts, without dragging names like Hopkins, Jones, and De La Hoya into it as a lame attempt to divert attention from your idol.

Also, the "career choice" excuse? Nice vague analysis that is, meaning absolutely nothing. Of course it's a "career choice". So is Taylor deciding he could make 160 for a few more fights or saying he wanted $10 million to face a fellow undefeated champion (which is not that out of the realm of possibility, considering what Joe and Bernard made when they fought). The difference is that Calzaghe says one thing then does another, and then acts like he never said the first thing to begin with, going so far as to talk utter ****e about another fighter in the process.

Im starting to not take you seriously now. You seemed a fairly decent poster but you've obviously developed a bit of a bitter streak with regards to Calzaghe.

Im not here to defend Calzaghe (on a Jermain Taylor thread of all things). I offered up several explainations for Calzaghe's change of stance and mind. Yet you didnt respond to any of them. I offered a list of fighters who have similarly changed stance including the man who seems to be your "idol", Jermain Taylor.

Yes, they were both career choices but I dont see you calling Taylor a "weasel" for pricing himself out of a fight with Calzaghe and then avoiding Froch.

You keep distorting facts. Taylor was the one who made his intentions to fight Calzaghe clear, even stating his willingness to come to the UK to do it. He made absolutely no mention of the ridiculous $10m fee that he later demanded as a way to price himself out. He said his intentions were to fight the best guys at 168lbs because it was "impossible" for him to make weight.

Yet what did he do? Made 2 gimmie defences against much smaller men. Then what was supposed to be another relatively routine defence against Pavlik.

So surely you can see that Taylor said one thing and ended up doing another here?

[dstew]

I don't think so. I can see the appeal of putting a one sided beatdown on Roy Jones Jr in your final fight as a professional. Such a thing would of course boost Joe's Stateside profile massively too, as casual fans don't know jack-****, and of course it would both increase calls for Joe to fight Pavlik and maximise revenue should such a thing actually happen...

C'mon man, casual fans are smart enough to know how to tell someone's age.

"Wait, isn't that Roy Jones Jr? Man, he looks old! Wasn't he fighting for championships like 15 years ago?"

Not to mention, Roy's age is all the commentators will be talking about.

And casual fans won't have forgotten that Roy's had two brutal KO's in recent years.

OTOH, if Joe is doing this to maximize revenue for a potential Pavlik fight, as I've suspected on occasion, then more power to him. If he actually fights Pavlik, I'll give him due credit at that time.

[abadger]

C'mon man, casual fans are smart enough to know how to tell someone's age.

"Wait, isn't that Roy Jones Jr? Man, he looks old! Wasn't he fighting for championships like 15 years ago?"

Not to mention, Roy's age is all the commentators will be talking about.

And casual fans won't have forgotten that Roy's had two brutal KO's in recent years.

OTOH, if Joe is doing this to maximize revenue for a potential Pavlik fight, as I've suspected on occasion, then more power to him. If he actually fights Pavlik, I'll give him due credit at that time.

Yes, that's exactly what I'm saying. Casual fans, who form the vast majority of the paying customers, literally do not know their ass from their elbow. They will remember Jones getting KOd, they may even know he is old now, but they will be perfectly happy to believe that this fight is Roy Jones' comeback, following his 'impressive' performance against Trinidad, and they will believe that Roy, even now still has what it takes to beat Joe Calzaghe, who they will know diddly squat about, and care about him still less.

For your evidence you need look no further than this forum, where in several polls 50% of supposedly hardcore boxing fans pick Jones. Look at how Mike Tyson continued to be perceived late into his career despite being shot to ****. Casual fans are sports fans at best and TV fans at worst, they don't know anything about boxing, and will, frankly, believe anything the promoters want them to believe.

[CiganoBoxer]

When Taylor achieves half of what Calzaghe has in the sport maybe you can compare them.

When Calzaghe gets knocked the **** out and decisioned back to back by the same guy, then maybe you can compare him to Taylor.

hahahhah Dirk you kill me dont you realise that Taylor will never achieve even half of what Calzaghe has!? cause hes all ready been knocked out bro

[Dirk Diggler UK]

hahahhah Dirk you kill me dont you realise that Taylor will never achieve even half of what Calzaghe has!? cause hes all ready been knocked out bro

Well he still has time to come back from that and achieve a lot.

Of course the "weasel" (dstew's words) said he would retire at 30. So he's got exactly zero years to achieve it.

[Hitman932]

You keep distorting facts. Taylor was the one who made his intentions to fight Calzaghe clear, even stating his willingness to come to the UK to do it. He made absolutely no mention of the ridiculous $10m fee that he later demanded as a way to price himself out. He said his intentions were to fight the best guys at 168lbs because it was "impossible" for him to make weight.

Yet what did he do? Made 2 gimmie defences against much smaller men. Then what was supposed to be another relatively routine defence against Pavlik.

So surely you can see that Taylor said one thing and ended up doing another here?

I bet when you were a kid you were always getting in trouble and saying "but mummy! all the other lads are doing it!"

[dstew]

Im not here to defend Calzaghe (on a Jermain Taylor thread of all things). I offered up several explainations for Calzaghe's change of stance and mind. Yet you didnt respond to any of them. I offered a list of fighters who have similarly changed stance including the man who seems to be your "idol", Jermain Taylor.

What's funny is that your very first post on this "Jermain Taylor thread" was to defend Joe Calzaghe, so you're going to have a difficult time arguing that's not why you're here.

Further, if you read my responses to others on this thread, I have laid out my thoughts on every "Calzaghe change of stance and mind" imaginable. I'm not going to duplicate my efforts for your convenience.

Also, how can you make a big deal out of this being a Jermain Taylor thread, and then demand a response to your bringing completely unrelated fighters into this argument to take the heat of Joe Cal? Get off the misdirection tactics, they're not working.

Yes, they were both career choices but I dont see you calling Taylor a "weasel" for pricing himself out of a fight with Calzaghe and then avoiding Froch.

Someone pricing themself out of a fight doesn't make them a weasel, it makes them egotistical and greedy, at worst. It's a business. Sometimes deals don't get made. It doesn't mean that fighter is dishonest.

Personally I would like to see Taylor fight Froch (can you say that about Calzaghe and Pavlik?). But his manager was very up front with the reasons why that fight was not made; the risk/reward ratio was not right, which I can understand. Calzaghe and crew have made no such admission about Pavlik.

You keep distorting facts. Taylor was the one who made his intentions to fight Calzaghe clear, even stating his willingness to come to the UK to do it. He made absolutely no mention of the ridiculous $10m fee that he later demanded as a way to price himself out. He said his intentions were to fight the best guys at 168lbs because it was "impossible" for him to make weight.

Yet what did he do? Made 2 gimmie defences against much smaller men. Then what was supposed to be another relatively routine defence against Pavlik.
So surely you can see that Taylor said one thing and ended up doing another here?

$10 million isn't that ridiculous, as has already been pointed out. A bit much for Taylor, maybe, but at the time he was a lineal undisputed, undefeated champion. Naming too high of a price doesn't make him a liar or a weasel.

And I don't see how you can fault a man for working his ass off to make weight in order to give himself a few more title defenses. Did he lie? In hindsight, yes. Was it to mislead the public or otherwise make himself look better? Not at all. I'm sure at the time he said that, he desparately wanted to make things easier on his training by moving to the heavier classfication. A year after he made that statement, he said before the first Pavlik fight that it would be his last at 160. He was right.

This in no way is comparable to deceiving the public to cover your own ass, as Calzaghe has seemingly done.