Jermain Taylor: "I Want To Make an Impact at 168"

[CiganoBoxer]

Well he still has time to come back from that and achieve a lot.

Of course the "weasel" (dstew's words) said he would retire at 30. So he's got exactly zero years to achieve it.

true true

[Dirk Diggler UK]

I bet when you were a kid you were always getting in trouble and saying "but mummy! all the other lads are doing it!"

No mate, merely pointing out that Joe Calzaghe is hardly the first boxer to change his mind, change his stance or flat out talk utter ****e in the press.

Yet according to some, he should be hanged, drawn and quartered for it.

[bsrizpac]

I bet when you were a kid you were always getting in trouble and saying "but mummy! all the other lads are doing it!"

When Dirk gets pulled over for speeding he tries to tell the cops "everyone else is doing it" all the time. Doesn't work so well for some reason.

[dstew]

Yes, that's exactly what I'm saying. Casual fans, who form the vast majority of the paying customers, literally do not know their ass from their elbow. They will remember Jones getting KOd, they may even know he is old now, but they will be perfectly happy to believe that this fight is Roy Jones' comeback, following his 'impressive' performance against Trinidad, and they will believe that Roy, even now still has what it takes to beat Joe Calzaghe, who they will know diddly squat about, and care about him still less.

For your evidence you need look no further than this forum, where in several polls 50% of supposedly hardcore boxing fans pick Jones. Look at how Mike Tyson continued to be perceived late into his career despite being shot to ****. Casual fans are sports fans at best and TV fans at worst, they don't know anything about boxing, and will, frankly, believe anything the promoters want them to believe.

If all else fails, fall back on the "Joe's only banking on the ignorance of the public," defense.

I see no point in trying to debate too deeply the general public perception of a fight that has not happened yet. All I can say is that I think - and hope - you are wrong.

Fortunately the general public doesn't write the history books when it comes to boxing, and Joe has yet to fool the boxing media.

[dstew]

No mate, merely pointing out that Joe Calzaghe is hardly the first boxer to change his mind, change his stance or flat out talk utter ****e in the press.

Yet according to some, he should be hanged, drawn and quartered for it.

Nice exagerration. Nobody wants to flog the man, it's just fun to make his legion of "Joe can do no wrong" defenders squirm.

[abadger]

If all else fails, fall back on the "Joe's only banking on the ignorance of the public," defense.

I see no point in trying to debate too deeply the general public perception of a fight that has not happened yet. All I can say is that I think - and hope - you are wrong.

Fortunately the general public doesn't write the history books when it comes to boxing, and Joe has yet to fool the boxing media.

I really don't feel I am even trying to defend Calzaghe. If he is doing what I say then he is guilty of all the crimes you accuse him of, choosing a washed up opponent for a payday rather than a meaningful fight. It's perfectly true.

I would rather see him fight Pavlik myself, but as I've said many times before, this is only kelly pavlik we're talking about, not some world renowned god of boxing, or a guy who's been calling Joe out for years and got the wins to back it up, but is being avoided. Kelly is just a guy who might or might not be the real deal, who doesn't have much to lose in a fight with Calzaghe and would like the crack at the real big time and the payday it represents while he still has the chance. If it wasn't Pavlik it would be Dawson, if not him then Taylor, and so on and so on.

[Dirk Diggler UK]

What's funny is that your very first post on this "Jermain Taylor thread" was to defend Joe Calzaghe, so you're going to have a difficult time arguing that's not why you're here..

What's funny is that you were the first to bring up Joe Calzaghe rather unprovoked and unneccesarily. I was merely responding to what you said.......which was just plain ignorant.

Further, if you read my responses to others on this thread, I have laid out my thoughts on every "Calzaghe change of stance and mind" imaginable. I'm not going to duplicate my efforts for your convenience.

I have read your thoughts and I responded to them and offered valid reasons for Calzaghe's change of mind. You didnt respond to a single on of them. Instead making some smart arse wise crack. Most likely because you didnt have a response.

Someone pricing themself out of a fight doesn't make them a weasel, it makes them egotistical and greedy, at worst. It's a business. Sometimes deals don't get made. It doesn't mean that fighter is dishonest.

Oh it doesnt? Yes........you said it mate, its a business. Jermain Taylor said publically in the press that he couldnt make 160, that he was gonna retire at 30 and only wanted to fight the best at the 168lb division.

Instead he fights...........Cory Spinks and Kassim Ouma (a couple of jr middles at best). Yet he's not a weasel but Calzaghe is for saying he'd like to fight Pavlik but then changing his mind to fight Roy Jones - who is at least in his division and capable of giving him a hard fight.

When I say Im not here to defend Calzaghe, its on this topic. I dont think he's a "weasel", nor do i think Taylor is one so I dont feel I have to defend him on that rather lame point. Im just pointing out your double standard.

Personally I would like to see Taylor fight Froch (can you say that about Calzaghe and Pavlik?). But his manager was very up front with the reasons why that fight was not made; the risk/reward ratio was not right, which I can understand. Calzaghe and crew have made no such admission about Pavlik..

Yes I wouldnt mind see Calzaghe vs Pavlik. Still hopeful it could happen. Like Ive told you countless times, Taylor has been beaten twice on the spin. I dont think he's in such a lofty position as Calzaghe to be turning down fights for world titles.

As far as risk/reward goes. I think Jones is the riskier fight. Styles make fights and Pavlik is made for Calzaghe. I dont think thats an outrageous view to take up.

And I don't see how you can fault a man for working his ass off to make weight in order to give himself a few more title defenses. Did he lie? In hindsight, yes. Was it to mislead the public or otherwise make himself look better? Not at all. I'm sure at the time he said that, he desparately wanted to make things easier on his training by moving to the heavier classfication. A year after he made that statement, he said before the first Pavlik fight that it would be his last at 160. He was right.

This in no way is comparable to deceiving the public to cover your own ass, as Calzaghe has seemingly done.

I dont fault Taylor. I actually couldnt give two ****s about his career choices. Im just pointing out that Calzaghe has not been the only boxer in history to publically say one thing then do another. Di Bella, whilst negotiating with Warren for the Calzaghe fight had some derogatory things to say about Lacy. Now they're fighting him.

Taylor mislead the public by saying he was retiring soon and was only looking to fight the best at 168. Something he clearly did not do and still isnt even close to doing.

[Hitman932]

No mate, merely pointing out that Joe Calzaghe is hardly the first boxer to change his mind, change his stance or flat out talk utter ****e in the press.

Yet according to some, he should be hanged, drawn and quartered for it.

I think the point you are missing is that Joe is claiming this is a fight to further his "legacy". Beating RJJ proves nothing to anyone, it is a joke of a fight that is on the level of the Peter Manfredo debacle, not because RJJ is that bad but because he deserves the opportunity about as much as Manfredo did.

When Calzaghe beats RJJ he should bring Dariusz Michaleszewski out of retirement, after all, that guy is a legend.

[bsrizpac]

I think the point you are missing is that Joe is claiming this is a fight to further his "legacy". Beating RJJ proves nothing to anyone, it is a joke of a fight that is on the level of the Peter Manfredo debacle, not because RJJ is that bad but because he deserves the opportunity about as much as Manfredo did.

When Calzaghe beats RJJ he should bring Dariusz Michaleszewski out of retirement, after all, that guy is a legend.

So dead on and accurate that I can almost assure that this post's points will be missed.

[Dirk Diggler UK]

I think the point you are missing is that Joe is claiming this is a fight to further his "legacy". Beating RJJ proves nothing to anyone, it is a joke of a fight that is on the level of the Peter Manfredo debacle, not because RJJ is that bad but because he deserves the opportunity about as much as Manfredo did.

When Calzaghe beats RJJ he should bring Dariusz Michaleszewski out of retirement, after all, that guy is a legend.

Where to start with the ******ity of this post?

I dont know if Calzaghe has actually said this will further his legacy. What I believe hes been saying is that Roy Jones is a legend, hes always wanted to fight him and that its a great way to end his career.

I think Joe feels he has secured his legacy. He was quoted as saying that he cant please everyone and he stopped caring about what people say on such places as these about his record/achievements etc.

Comparing it to Peter Manfredo or even Dariusz is just ******ed. Manfredo could fight for 20 years and still not posses even the declining skills of a current Roy Jones. Dariusz has retired, Jones has been winning fights convincingly against decent if not great opposition