Why is Jack Johnson a top ten heavyweight?

[Steak]

seriously, makes no sense. Ive seen people put him in the top 10 best heavyweights list, but for what? the guy was fighting guys that weighed 160 naturally, which would pretty much be the equivilant of Welterweights nowadays. Johnson fought maybe 2 or 3 guys that weighed 200lbs+ in his title defences, one of them being a loss.

and the guys style? it was basically a better version of John Ruiz, and Im not joking at all. I know the fights were longer and everything, but mostly he did that sort of thing because he 220lbs and he could just lean on guys that weighed about 50 or 60 pounds less than him. I dont mean to put him down, but if someone like Tyson would have knocked out Roy Jones no one wouldve given him any credit, despite the fact that Jones is one of the greatest p4p fighters and middleweight/light heavyweights of all time...If you wouldnt give Tyson credit for that, why would you give credit to Johnson for knocking out lesser middleweights?

I dont mean to put him down so badly, but I have a hard time believing that there arent 10 heavyweights that have done more than Jack Johnson has.
so why would someone ever rate Jack Johnson in the top 10 best heavies?

[Miburo]

He was the second prominent outfighter in heavyweight boxing history (after Corbett) and had to overcome constant threats on his life and abuse both in and out of the ring. He could have been killed at just about any time and probably very little would have been done to the perpetrator(s). Despite all this he did everything he could to bait and taunt his detractors.

[Jim Jeffries]

His best win was against a guy who hadn't fought in 6 years and had to lose almost a hundred pounds in a short amount of time to try and get in fighting shape, and that still went like 15 rounds. Winning a title from a 5'7", 168 lb Burns, defended against guys like Ketchel, a middleweight weighing 170, and clubfighters like Battling Johnson. And after winning the title, ducked all black fighters, like Sam Langford.

Johnson deserves a lot of credit for being the first black HW champ (even though he set blacks decades back in boxing,) but top 10 ATG HW? Not a chance.

[TheGreatA]

200 lb Jack Johnson fighting and leaning on 160-180 lb boxers is the same as 240 lb Wladimir Klitschko fighting and leaning on 200-220 lb boxers.

Different era, different rules, different styles. All fighters clinched more and threw less punches.

Johnson defeated the best of his time. He may not have defended his title against the best but he was already getting up there in age by then.

He had wins over Langford, Jeannette, McVea, Fitzsimmons and others before he became the champion.

I'm not saying you have to rate him in the top 10 but it's a whole different era of boxing, not comparable to what boxing is today. You need to learn about it before really rating the fighters of that particular era accordingly.

[Steak]

He was the second prominent outfighter in heavyweight boxing history (after Corbett) and had to overcome constant threats on his life and abuse both in and out of the ring. He could have been killed at just about any time and probably very little would have been done to the perpetrator(s). Despite all this he did everything he could to bait and taunt his detractors.

I feel bad for the descrimination against Jack Johnson, but he did nothing to help the black community, and probebly even made them look bad.

and all that has nothing to do with how he compares to the other top heavyweights in history, when it gets down to it.

[joseph5620]

seriously, makes no sense. Ive seen people put him in the top 10 best heavyweights list, but for what? the guy was fighting guys that weighed 160 naturally, which would pretty much be the equivilant of Welterweights nowadays. Johnson fought maybe 2 or 3 guys that weighed 200lbs+ in his title defences, one of them being a loss.

and the guys style? it was basically a better version of John Ruiz, and Im not joking at all. I know the rounds were longer and everything, but mostly he did that sort of thing because he 220lbs and he could just lean on guys that weighed about 50 or 60 pounds less than him. I dont mean to put him down, but if someone like Tyson would have knocked out Roy Jones no one wouldve given him any credit, despite the fact that Jones is one of the greatest p4p fighters and middleweight/light heavyweights of all time...If you wouldnt give Tyson credit for that, why would you give credit to Johnson for knocking out lesser middleweights?

I dont mean to put him down so badly, but I have a hard time believing that there arent 10 heavyweights that have done more than Jack Johnson has.
so why would someone ever rate Jack Johnson in the top 10 best heavies?

To be honest, I look at a lot of the styles of fighters from that era including Jack Dempsey and Jim Jeffries and I can't see any of them doing well in this era. judging by those grainy video fights of theirs. Johnson was a little ahead of his time style wise with his defense but I agree with you about the holding. He would have to seriously modify that style today or get DQ'd or booed out of the ring.I think when you look at the number of years Johnson was champion as well as the circumstances he fought under, you can make case for him being top 10. He also fought fighters like Sam Langford before he became champ when fighters like Dempsey or Jeffries wouldn't go near them.

[Steak]

200 lb Jack Johnson fighting and leaning on 160-180 lb boxers is the same as 240 lb Wladimir Klitschko fighting and leaning on 200-220 lb boxers.

Different era, different rules, different styles. All fighters clinched more and threw less punches.

Johnson defeated the best of his time. He may not have defended his title against the best but he was already getting up there in age by then.

He had wins over Langford, Jeannette, McVea, Fitzsimmons and others before he became the champion.

I dont consider him a bad heavyweight by any means, but honestly...do you think that those wins make him deserve a spot as one top 10 heavyweights of all time?

I wouldnt exactly consider Wlad top ten either. and a 170lb guy fighting a 210 lb guy is more dramatic than a 210lb guy fighting a 240lb guy.

[Left Hook Tua]

he is very underrated because of his bad reputation and lack of videos of his fights.

before his championship run he fought some of the best black fighters of the era and obviously dominated the white fighters during his reign.

a lot of historians consider his defense to be the best ever at heavy.

[Jim Jeffries]

To be honest, I look at a lot of the styles of fighters from that era including Jack Dempsey and Jim Jeffries and I can't see any of them doing well in this era. judging by those grainy video fights of theirs. Johnson was a little ahead of his time style wise with his defense but I agree with you about the holding. He would have to seriously modify that style today or get DQ'd or booed out of the ring.I think when you look at the number of years Johnson was champion as well as the circumstances he fought under, you can make case for him being top 10. He also fought fighters like Sam Langford before he became champ when fighters like Dempsey or Jeffries wouldn't go near them.

Langford was completely finished by the time Dempsey was around, and Jeffries fought Peter Jackson, who was 46-1 at the time, in Jim's 8th fight. Pretty hilarious to accuse Jeffries of ducking Langford, but then fighting Johnson, who'd already beaten Sam.

[joseph5620]

His best win was against a guy who hadn't fought in 6 years and had to lose almost a hundred pounds in a short amount of time to try and get in fighting shape, and that still went like 15 rounds. Winning a title from a 5'7", 168 lb Burns, defended against guys like Ketchel, a middleweight weighing 170,

and clubfighters like Battling Johnson. And after winning the title, ducked all black fighters, like Sam Langford.

Jim Jeffries biggest wins were also over much smaller fighters like Fitzsimmons(167) and corbett(183). He also went the distance with Tom Sharkey who was 40 pounds lighter at 183. Not to mention his face was rearranged by much smaller fighters like Corbett and Fitzsimmons.



Johnson deserves a lot of credit for being the first black HW champ (even though he set blacks decades back in boxing,) but top 10 ATG HW? Not a chance.

No, racism and segregation was what set black fighters back. It's funny how you blame Johnson for that. No wonder you're a **********. That explains your ridiculous spin.