Why is Jack Johnson a top ten heavyweight?

[TheGreatA]

I dont consider him a bad heavyweight by any means, but honestly...do you think that those wins make him deserve a spot as one top 10 heavyweights of all time?

I wouldnt exactly consider Wlad top ten either. and a 170lb guy fighting a 210 lb guy is more dramatic than a 210lb guy fighting a 240lb guy.

I agree but again, back then middleweights fought heavyweights on a regular basis. Langford was known for KO'ing big heavyweights and he started his career defeating champions at lightweight and welterweight.

A big weight difference doesn't always mean you'll win easy, as Billy Conn showed against Louis and Henry Cooper showed against Ali.

Not all the fighters Johnson fought were small either, Sam McVea for example was around 210-220 lbs.


Sam McVea

Jack Johnson was a pioneer in an era where the majority of fighters were still crude (not all, Joe Gans for example was as good a boxer as anybody).

[Steak]

[B]


No, racism and segregation was what set black fighters back. It's funny how you blame Johnson for that. No wonder you're a **********. That explains your ridiculous spin.

Jack Johnson didnt help black people out at all. he created a bad image for them and basically reinforced racist people's prejudgements. the racism was already there, which was a disgrace, but Johnson did nothing to help or give them any reason to change their mind. Joe Louis was the anti-Jack Johnson, and actually made black people look good

[joseph5620]

Langford was completely finished by the time Dempsey was around, and Jeffries fought Peter Jackson, who was 46-1 at the time, in Jim's 8th fight. Pretty hilarious to accuse Jeffries of ducking Langford, but then fighting Johnson, who'd already beaten Sam.

Jim Jeffries clearly ducked Johnson when he held the tile. And other black fighters. He himself said he would not defend his title against a black fighter. So don't try to come up with any bull**** that says otherwise or I'll humiliate you on this topic. The only reason why he fought him was because of public pressure as well as the fact that Johnson was champion. Langford was not done when Dempsey was coming up and Dempsey himself admitted that he wanted no part of Langford. You want me to post the quote from his book? Just say the word. I also remember you accusing Johnson of ducking Langford but you obviously don't hold white champions to the same standard. That is what's really hilarious.

[Jim Jeffries]

[B]


No, racism and segregation was what set black fighters back. It's funny how you blame Johnson for that. No wonder you're a **********. That explains your ridiculous spin.

When a real black champion like Joe Louis came along, he paved the way for other great black champs like Sugar Ray Robinson. Of course racism and segregation existed in Johnson's time, but they didn't stop him from ultimately becoming world champ, and his actions while champ certainly did nothing but set blacks back many years before they would be accepted.

[joseph5620]

Jack Johnson didnt help black people out at all. he created a bad image for them and basically reinforced racist people's prejudgements. the racism was already there, which was a disgrace, but Johnson did nothing to help or give them any reason to change their mind. Joe Louis was the anti-Jack Johnson, and actually made black people look good

I agree with what you're saying but Johnson was just a man who had the right to live as he pleased whether right or wrong.That was his philosophy. He was no worse a person than Jack Dempsey. The fact that a whole race was punished for it should not fall on his shoulders.

[Steak]

I agree but again, back then middleweights fought heavyweights on a regular basis. Langford was known for KO'ing big heavyweights and he started his career defeating champions at lightweight and welterweight.

A big weight difference doesn't always mean you'll win easy, as Billy Conn showed against Louis and Henry Cooper showed against Ali.

Not all the fighters Johnson fought were small either, Sam McVea for example was around 210-220 lbs.


Sam McVea

Jack Johnson was a pioneer in an era where the majority of fighters were still crude (not all, Joe Gans for example was as good a boxer as anybody).

point taken.

I dont think Johnson is garbage, but I just dont know how he gets on to be considered top 10 is all. and I know he fought bigger guys too and not all middleweights, but when it gets down to it he doesnt really have a standout win over a natural heavyweight or even light heavyweight...which seems sort of lacking to me.
but different times. I can understand that.

[joseph5620]

When a real black champion like Joe Louis came along, he paved the way for other great black champs like Sugar Ray Robinson. Of course racism and segregation existed in Johnson's time, [but they didn't stop him from ultimately becoming world champ, and his actions while champ certainly did nothing but set blacks back many years before they would be accepted




Ok...but explain what actions did this? Because he slept with white women? I hope you see how ****** that sounds when you try to justify black fighters getting set back..

[joseph5620]

point taken.

I dont think Johnson is garbage, but I just dont know how he gets on to be considered top 10 is all. and I know he fought bigger guys too and not all middleweights, but when it gets down to it he doesnt really have a standout win over a natural heavyweight or even light heavyweight...which seems sort of lacking to me.
but different times. I can understand that.

I personally would have a hard time rating him as top 10 if I made a list so I agree with you there.

[Jim Jeffries]

Jim Jeffries clearly ducked Johnson when he held the tile. And other black fighters. He himself said he would not defend his title against a black fighter. So don't try to come up with any bull**** that says otherwise or I'll humiliate you on this topic. The only reason why he fought him was because of public pressure as well as the fact that Johnson was champion. Langford was not done when Dempsey was coming up and Dempsey himself admitted that he wanted no part of Langford. You want me to post the quote from his book? Just say the word. I also remember you accusing Johnson of ducking Langford but you obviously don't hold white champions to the same standard. That is what's really hilarious.

Dempsey ducking an old Langford who was losing to clubfighters is completely ridiculous. Now Harry Wills, who made Langford his btch might be a different story. Dempsey should've defended his title against some of the top black fighters at the time, but he also should've defended his title more that 6 times in 7 years, including a 3 year drought just before facing Tunney. But those were different times, when blacks were considered less than people. The point is Johnson did absolutely nothing to change that.

[Steak]

I agree with what you're saying but Johnson was just a man who had the right to live as he pleased whether right or wrong.That was his philosophy. He was no worse a person than Jack Dempsey. The fact that a whole race was punished for it should not fall on his shoulders.

I dont blame him for racism, but I dont respect his choices. I know I dont really have a right to say this, but if everyone looked to me to represent all of my race/country, I would try my best to live respectfully or at least appear that way to the general media. I wouldnt do the exact opposite thats for sure.

but I dont know. my life wouldve probebly been way too different to say for sure.