Which wins deserves more credit?

[Ryn0]

I would pick the "great fighter past his prime" but it depends how far gone that fighter is. Usually the great fighter past his prime would beat the good fighter in prime or great small prime fighter.

[-MAKAVELLI-]

when you say 'A win over a great fighter in his prime but who is naturally smaller'...how much smaller?


i mean, if you're a WW and you have a great jr WW moving up, then i would put higher value in that...but if that great, smaller fighter is about 2-3 weight classes below then it becomes meaningless

[Left Hook Tua]

Damn, I forgot how Knocked-to-****ery Ruiz got that night

What did you vote for, And why?

i give the slight edge to great fighters in their division who are older and past their prime.

great fighters who are past it are more than likely still good enough to beat good fighters in their prime. depends of course on how past prime they are.

obviously there's a difference between past prime and being shot.

[Left Hook Tua]

I would pick the "great fighter past his prime" but it depends how far gone that fighter is. Usually the great fighter past his prime would beat the good fighter in prime or great small prime fighter.

past prime to me is somewhere between "slightly slipping in skills" to "completely shot"

kostya is a good example in the ricky fight.

he wasn't in top form anymore but he wasn't shot either.

[T-97]

i give the slight edge to great fighters in their division who are older and past their prime.

great fighters who are past it are more than likely still good enough to beat good fighters in their prime. depends of course on how past prime they are.

obviously there's a difference between past prime and being shot.

Very true,

That was my problem on it, The degree to which they are past their primes. Ray Robinson lost to Joey Archer, no one with 2 brain cells will rate that win. Hattons win over Tszyu and Calzaghes over Hopkins are both good wins as the 2 older fighters were still rated highly at the time, And were obviously still very skilled fighters.

[Left Hook Tua]

when you say 'A win over a great fighter in his prime but who is naturally smaller'...how much smaller?


i mean, if you're a WW and you have a great jr WW moving up, then i would put higher value in that...but if that great, smaller fighter is about 2-3 weight classes below then it becomes meaningless

good example would be oscar and tito fighting at 160.

natural welters who are big enough to be super welters fighting at middleweight.

[T-97]

good example would be oscar and tito fighting at 160.

natural welters who are big enough to be super welters fighting at middleweight.

To be fair, I wouldn't say at that point Oscar or Tito were Welters as they couldn't make the weight, Or had trouble doing it. I don't ive Hop any credit for Stopping Oscar as he was a **** middleweight. He didn't deserve the win over Sturm in the first place.

[Ryn0]

past prime to me is somewhere between "slightly slipping in skills" to "completely shot"

kostya is a good example in the ricky fight.

he wasn't in top form anymore but he wasn't shot either.

I still think that Kostya would blast out almost everyone in his division (at the time) on the night that he fought Hatton. The great past prime fighter would beat the good in prime fighter and depending on how big the prime coming up fighter is they would most likely beat them too.

[ИATAS]

good example would be oscar and tito fighting at 160.

natural welters who are big enough to be super welters fighting at middleweight.

oscar is a good example, tito is not. Tito was a middleweight champion when he fought bernard, he is currently a light heavyweight and fit very well at middleweight. If not for hopkins he would have cleaned out the division and beat eveyone.

[Left Hook Tua]

To be fair, I wouldn't say at that point Oscar or Tito were Welters as they couldn't make the weight, Or had trouble doing it. I don't ive Hop any credit for Stopping Oscar as he was a **** middleweight. He didn't deserve the win over Sturm in the first place.

i understand that. just like manny isn't a featherweight anymore.

but it's the fact that they were at their best at that weight.