SRR is a coward and a fraud

[warp1432]

The most important thing was he fought all the number one contenders in each division. He didn't have to fight every single guy ranked in the top ten because by the time he gets to number one and the other guy gets to the number one contender spot they've probably beaten the majority of them already, so once he beats the number two guy, that's about it.

Even though he had already beat Bobo by UD 15, KO 2, KO 4? I mean you looeked like garbage against Rocky C. You probably should give him a rematch that point. The majority of those #1 guys he beat were because they were just the forrmer champion too. Remember these are ratings at the end of the year.

[TheGreatA]

Here are the ratings for the end of 1951 rolling on into 1952:

Sugar Ray Robinson, Champion

Randy Turpin
Dave Sands
Laurent Dauthuille
Eugene Hairston
Rocky Castellani
Ernie Durando
Walter Cartier
Ronnie Delaney
Robert Villemain
Rocky Graziano

I know you're trying to make a point but...

The problem was that Robinson retired in 1952 so he did not really have the time to defend his titles against all these fighters. The reasons for retiring after the Joey Maxim fight were legit, he was in bad shape.

Robinson did beat Robert Villemain before he won the world title, Hairston and Dauthuille were beaten by Jake LaMotta whom Robinson had beaten (yeah it's the triangle theory but it kind of eliminates them from getting a world title shot).

After Robinson became champion again when he came back from retirement, he did not really stay champion (which is why he did not defend), he would win the title, lose the title, win the title again, lost the title again, then win the title for the fifth time and lose it for the last time.

The champion's duty, IMO, is to defend his title against the number 1 ranked challenger and Robinson always did that.
Whether Robinson 'ducked' Charley Burley (who was a ranked as a middleweight although he was a welterweight) or bigger men like Archie Moore (who was a LHW/HW) is another case.

1946
Sugar Ray Robinson, WW Champion
1. Tommy Bell

1948
Sugar Ray Robinson, WW Champion
1. Kid Gavilan

1951
Sugar Ray Robinson, MW Champion
1. Randy Turpin

1955
Sugar Ray Robinson, MW Champion
1. Carl (Bobo) Olson

1956
Sugar Ray Robinson, MW Champion
1. Gene Fullmer

1958
Sugar Ray Robinson, MW Champion
1. Carmen Basilio

Taken from the Ring magazine rankings, Robinson fought all of them.

I mean you looeked like garbage against Rocky C. You probably should give him a rematch that point.

Castellani barely won a fight after losing to Robinson though, the loss to Tiger Jones (and no rematch) is the real black mark on his record.

[warp1432]

I know you're trying to make a point but...

The problem was that Robinson retired in 1952 so he did not really have the time to defend his titles against all these fighters. The reasons for retiring after the Joey Maxim fight were legit, he was in bad shape.

Robinson did beat Robert Villemain before he won the world title, Hairston and Dauthuille were beaten by Jake LaMotta whom Robinson had beaten (yeah it's the triangle theory but it kind of eliminates them from getting a world title shot).

After Robinson became champion again when he came back from retirement, he did not really stay champion (which is why he did not defend), he would win the title, lose the title, win the title again, lost the title again, then win the title for the fifth time and lose it for the last time.

The champion's duty, IMO, is to defend his title against the number 1 ranked challenger and Robinson always did that.
Whether Robinson 'ducked' Charley Burley (who was a ranked as a middleweight although he was a welterweight) or bigger men like Archie Moore (who was a LHW/HW) is another case.

1946
Sugar Ray Robinson, WW Champion
1. Tommy Bell

1948
Sugar Ray Robinson, WW Champion
1. Kid Gavilan

1951
Sugar Ray Robinson, MW Champion
1. Randy Turpin

1955
Sugar Ray Robinson, MW Champion
1. Carl (Bobo) Olson

1956
Sugar Ray Robinson, MW Champion
1. Gene Fullmer

1958
Sugar Ray Robinson, MW Champion
1. Carmen Basilio

Taken from the Ring magazine rankings, Robinson fought all of them.



Castellani barely won a fight after losing to Robinson though, the loss to Tiger Jones (and no rematch) is the real black mark on his record.

Yeah I didn't even bother with Welterweight and tryng to make him look bad there. I'm just saying, his number 1 person was usually someone he had already fought at Middleweight. Whether it was because he loss wins loss win loss win etc I feel he still would have been criticzed due to the fact that's all he was facing were those guys. In 1956 he fought Bobo and a tune up. I think he should have given someone else a chance in the meantime.

Also I find it kind of weak saying you'll fight them, but pull out at the last minute like he did with Burley.

[TheGreatA]

Yeah I didn't even bother with Welterweight and tryng to make him look bad there. I'm just saying, his number 1 person was usually someone he had already fought at Middleweight. Whether it was because he loss wins loss win loss win etc I feel he still would have been criticzed due to the fact that's all he was facing were those guys. In 1956 he fought Bobo and a tune up. I think he should have given someone else a chance in the meantime.

Possibly but he wasn't criticized at the time. He was the underdog against all of them.

Here are some articles of the day for those who are interested:
http://vault.sportsillustrated.cnn.c...0562/index.htm Robinson - Olson III
http://vault.sportsillustrated.cnn.c...2278/index.htm Robinson - Fullmer II
http://vault.sportsillustrated.cnn.c...2044/index.htm Robinson - Basilio II
http://vault.sportsillustrated.cnn.c...4778/index.htm Robinson - Fullmer III

Also I find it kind of weak saying you'll fight them, but pull out at the last minute like he did with Burley.

We do know that the main reason Robinson boxed was because of money.
Even Burley admitted that there wasn't much money in it and that he would not have given Robinson the chance if he was in Robinson's position, although he certainly wanted the fight. Burley had nothing to lose really.

I'm sure Robinson would be criticized for it today with million dollar paydays and all that but in his time people understood the reasons better because there wasn't as much money around. Robinson still ended his career almost penniless, as did most fighters.

Not making any excuses for Sugar Ray, it's essentially the same thing that Mayweather is doing now (and I haven't criticized him), although the times were obviously different.
Robinson however did make his way up by taking tough fights for little money before he won the world title and he did fight the top ranked challengers as the champion.

[Silencers]

There were also some reports that he didn't fight Cocoa Kid.

[championgee]

you guys a idiots.

"Sugar" Ray Robinson
(Walker Smith Jr.)
BORN May 3 1921; Ailey, Georgia
DIED April 12 1989; Harlem, New York
HEIGHT 6-0
WEIGHT 134 1/4-165 1/2 lbs
MANAGERS Curt Horrmann,George Gainford
TRAINERS Soldier Jones, Harry Wiley

*** AMATEUR BOUTS *** (Record: 85-0, 69 knockouts, 40 in first round)1939
-Robinson was the 126 Pound New York Golden Gloves Champion
-Robinson was the 126 Pound Inter-City Golden Gloves Champion

1940
-Robinson was the 135 Pound New York Golden Gloves Champion
-Robinson was the 135 Pound Inter-City Golden Gloves Champion



*** PROFESSIONAL BOUTS *** (Record: 173-19-6, 109 knockouts, 2 No Contests)

Jake LaMotta,Sammy Angott,Kid Gavilan,Joey Giardello ,Henry Armstrong ,Fritzie Zivic,Tommy Bell these are just a few of many , many more.
This man was a legend, super star, hero,road model, the grestest fighter too ever put on gloves. Just ask Muhammed Ali, joe luis, Mike tyson, sugar shane moesly, sugar ray lenard, Mayweather, lennox lewis, Manny stewart, Roger Mayweather, Roy jones jr, jus ask them wjo was there idle, and why. They'll all say the same thing, "SUGAR RAY ROBINSON"
So you see no matter what your young ass think ,This man was the greatest, and if he were fighting today he whip Cotto, margarita, de la hoya, tito trinadad,guzman, pac-man, marqez brothers,Paul williams ,and you on the same night.

"Sugar" Ray was the greatest all-around boxer to ever step into the ring; Many knowledgeable boxing people think so; He ranks among the top welterweights and middleweights of all-time; He was lightning quick - on his feet and with his hands; He hit hard, he had "savvy", he could move and he could take it; In a "nutshell" - he had everything !!!

Ray fought 85 amateur bouts and 40 professional bouts before he lost for the first time; He did not lose again until his 132nd professional fight; In all, he reportedly had over 200 pro bouts and lost just 19 - many towards the end of his career - when he was only "very good"

Herb Goldman ranked Robinson as the #1 All-Time Welterweight; Charley Rose ranked him as the #1 All-Time Welterweight; Nat Fleischer rnkaed him as the #1 All-Time Middleweight; Ray was inducted into the Ring Boxing Hall of Fame in 1967, the International Boxing Hall of Fame in 1990 and the Georgia Sports Hall of Fame in 2006

[Konstantin]

"Sugar" Ray Robinson
(Walker Smith Jr.)
BORN May 3 1921; Ailey, Georgia
DIED April 12 1989; Harlem, New York
HEIGHT 6-0
WEIGHT 134 1/4-165 1/2 lbs
MANAGERS Curt Horrmann,George Gainford
TRAINERS Soldier Jones, Harry Wiley

*** AMATEUR BOUTS *** (Record: 85-0, 69 knockouts, 40 in first round)1939
-Robinson was the 126 Pound New York Golden Gloves Champion
-Robinson was the 126 Pound Inter-City Golden Gloves Champion

1940
-Robinson was the 135 Pound New York Golden Gloves Champion
-Robinson was the 135 Pound Inter-City Golden Gloves Champion



*** PROFESSIONAL BOUTS *** (Record: 173-19-6, 109 knockouts, 2 No Contests)

Jake LaMotta,Sammy Angott,Kid Gavilan,Joey Giardello ,Henry Armstrong ,Fritzie Zivic,Tommy Bell these are just a few of many , many more.
This man was a legend, super star, hero,road model, the grestest fighter too ever put on gloves. Just ask Muhammed Ali, joe luis, Mike tyson, sugar shane moesly, sugar ray lenard, Mayweather, lennox lewis, Manny stewart, Roger Mayweather, Roy jones jr, jus ask them wjo was there idle, and why. They'll all say the same thing, "SUGAR RAY ROBINSON"
So you see no matter what your young ass think ,This man was the greatest, and if he were fighting today he whip Cotto, margarita, de la hoya, tito trinadad,guzman, pac-man, marqez brothers,Paul williams ,and you on the same night.

"Sugar" Ray was the greatest all-around boxer to ever step into the ring; Many knowledgeable boxing people think so; He ranks among the top welterweights and middleweights of all-time; He was lightning quick - on his feet and with his hands; He hit hard, he had "savvy", he could move and he could take it; In a "nutshell" - he had everything !!!

Ray fought 85 amateur bouts and 40 professional bouts before he lost for the first time; He did not lose again until his 132nd professional fight; In all, he reportedly had over 200 pro bouts and lost just 19 - many towards the end of his career - when he was only "very good"

Herb Goldman ranked Robinson as the #1 All-Time Welterweight; Charley Rose ranked him as the #1 All-Time Welterweight; Nat Fleischer rnkaed him as the #1 All-Time Middleweight; Ray was inducted into the Ring Boxing Hall of Fame in 1967, the International Boxing Hall of Fame in 1990 and the Georgia Sports Hall of Fame in 2006

Whats the point of this? Do you see anyone here claiming the opposite? STFU.

[AntonTheMeh]

well,considering black fighters where put in siberia if they lost a fight it didn't seem like the smartest idea for the best black fighters to fight each other.he should have fought burley though.

[Mr. Ryan]

Yeah he was a real son of a ***** to negotiate with. If you have time read his biography by Herb Boyd called Pound for Pound. It's an ok book that tries to make him seem like the victim, but it goes into his dark side and it's an interesting read.

Apperently they robbed him in the 3rd Fullmer bout because he was such a ***** to negotiate with.

It was co-written by his son, what do you expect?

I enjoyed that book, it shed a lot of light on Robinson's extra-ring self.

[BrooklynBomber]

You mean "was a coward" not "is a coward"