Calzaghe: "Kessler is Better Than Pavlik, and I Beat Him"

[Dan...]

Good question. It's actually the Andrade performance, which I saw after the Joe fight that really made me rate Kessler, he looked like an absolute beast. However, I think if he'd never fought Joe, then I'd be more inclined to say he had never been in with top class competition and needed to prove it. I've never seen anyone either box as well or be as competitive against Joe so that performance is important. I'm positive I would till pick him to beat Pavlik come what may. I think I'd find it hard to look past the way he is in many ways a faster, more agile version of Kelly.

I can flip this around too. Does your opinion of Pavlik change if the Taylor fights never happened?

Sure it does, massively. But my point lies in the fact that top class fighters don't just get in there and look like a beast against Andrade, they manage to get it done against other top fighters, or at least fighters of a better quality than Mundine. I understand that at times perhaps I may even come across as a Kessler hater but I can assure this is not the case, I am simply anxious to see him get out there and prove himself.

My feelings all pretty much come from a debate I had with BattheMan over whether Kessler should be rated alongside Pavlik p4p wise. I cannot accept a guy whose best win is Mundine being rated that highly, regardless of how good he has looked in his other fights. I know that you believe Taylor to be overrated also but he is still a top guy regardless and Pavlik has two wins over him.

[abadger]

Sure it does, massively. But my point lies in the fact that top class fighters don't just get in there and look like a beast against Andrade, they manage to get it done against other top fighters, or at least fighters of a better quality than Mundine. I understand that at times perhaps I may even come across as a Kessler hater but I can assure this is not the case, I am simply anxious to see him get out there and prove himself.

My feelings all pretty much come from a debate I had with BattheMan over whether Kessler should be rated alongside Pavlik p4p wise. I cannot accept a guy whose best win is Mundine being rated that highly, regardless of how good he has looked in his other fights. I know that you believe Taylor to be overrated also but he is still a top guy regardless and Pavlik has two wins over him.

Sometimes when we talk, I feel we are at cross purposes! You often talk of rating and ranking and being 'up there' in a way the seems to focus on what a fighter 'deserves'. In this case I see what you're saying, place Pavlik above Kessler all day, its completely true. By contrast I am usually saying Kessler is a more complete and talented boxer in my opinion, I think he would beat Pavlik. That's it, and its usually the same way of assessing boxers I use in every post on every fighter. I honestly think its a difference in the way Brits and Americans think!

[Dirk Diggler UK]

lol majority did not score it for calzaghe. every media outlet scored it for hopkins even setanta's round by round website. and no calzaghe dropped his hands like a ****** and got hit flush right at the bell. flush shots something the great joe should work on landing.

Every media outlet?

HBO where the fight was broadcast scored it for Calzaghe. Manny Steward said it wasnt even close (scored for Calzaghe). Richie Woodhall on Setanta scored it for Calzaghe. John Rawling his co commentator scored a draw. Who scored it for Hopkins? Stevie Wonder?

Cheating - something Joe should work on. Ok then.

[daggum]

Every media outlet?

HBO where the fight was broadcast scored it for Calzaghe. Manny Steward said it wasnt even close (scored for Calzaghe). Richie Woodhall on Setanta scored it for Calzaghe. John Rawling his co commentator scored a draw. Who scored it for Hopkins? Stevie Wonder?

Cheating - something Joe should work on. Ok then.

thats the majority 3 people? ok then. everyone else had hopkins win but these 3 people had calzaghe win. they are probably right......

[dstew]

Dont need to, we can look at the majority of other sources who scored it for Calzaghe.

The majority scored the first fight for Hopkins against Taylor.

I love how you keep referring to Hopkins first fight with Taylor, which was a SD, and not the second, which was a UD and the more dominant performance (by a far more inexperienced fighter than Joe).

You also listed the dirty tricks Hopkins pulled against Calzaghe, "hold, maul, headbutt," as though he didn't do the same to Taylor. The biggest injury Taylor sustained in the first fight, in which you keep claiming he was badly hurt, was a nice gash on his forehead opened up by a Bernard headbutt.

Both the Taylor decisions and the Calzaghe decisions were pretty equally controversial, but you continue to say anything that will make it seem like Joe won more convincingly.

[daggum]

I love how you keep referring to Hopkins first fight with Taylor, which was a SD, and not the second, which was a UD and the more dominant performance (by a far more inexperienced fighter than Joe).

You also listed the dirty tricks Hopkins pulled against Calzaghe, "hold, maul, headbutt," as though he didn't do the same to Taylor. The biggest injury Taylor sustained in the first fight, in which you keep claiming he was badly hurt, was a nice gash on his forehead opened up by a Bernard headbutt.

Both the Taylor decisions and the Calzaghe decisions were pretty equally controversial, but you continue to say anything that will make it seem like Joe won more convincingly.

after the calzaghe gift decision debacle the taylor fights don't even look that bad. taylor actually hit hopkins something calzaghe failed to do. yet calzaghe won according to 2 blind dudes but everyone else in boxing had hopkins winning. you go girl!

[Dan...]

Sometimes when we talk, I feel we are at cross purposes! You often talk of rating and ranking and being 'up there' in a way the seems to focus on what a fighter 'deserves'. In this case I see what you're saying, place Pavlik above Kessler all day, its completely true. By contrast I am usually saying Kessler is a more complete and talented boxer in my opinion, I think he would beat Pavlik. That's it, and its usually the same way of assessing boxers I use in every post on every fighter. I honestly think its a difference in the way Brits and Americans think!

Yeah I think you are right. I pretty much assess a fighter on accomplishments mainly when I compare them to others. I only really look at who would beat who if I am assessing an actual hypothetical match-up. Things do change in my mind if I look at who would win between the two.

[dstew]

One think Pavlik has over Kessler is balls. He's trying to make fights with the biggest names from 160-175 while Kessler is content to fight Europe's best factory workers.

Kessler has talent, but needs to nut up, tell the WBA to lick his grundle, and line up a real fight.

[abadger]

One think Pavlik has over Kessler is balls. He's trying to make fights with the biggest names from 160-175 while Kessler is content to fight Europe's best factory workers.

Kessler has talent, but needs to nut up, tell the WBA to lick his grundle, and line up a real fight.

I think thats too harsh. I think its very hard for top Europeans like Kessler to get the big name Americans to fight them, for a variety of reasons, namely because I think the US Networks much prefer having American champs because they generate more money on the US market. Having the belts go to Europe means less PPV sales and viewers for title fights.

Also, Kessler did in fact clean out half the SMW division when he was Kelly's age and younger, and fought Calzaghe in Britain. I'd say that takes balls. Right now he's taken the path to 1) get a belt and 2) respect the belt by facing a mandatory, I think we should wait and see what happens next. Title fights are the way elite boxers make the most money, and as a defending champ you guarantee them. Kessler is too good not to be involved in big fights, I hope he and others both allow them to happen.

[daggum]

I think thats too harsh. I think its very hard for top Europeans like Kessler to get the big name Americans to fight them, for a variety of reasons, namely because I think the US Networks much prefer having American champs because they generate more money on the US market. Having the belts go to Europe means less PPV sales and viewers for title fights.

Also, Kessler did in fact clean out half the SMW division when he was Kelly's age and younger, and fought Calzaghe in Britain. I'd say that takes balls. Right now he's taken the path to 1) get a belt and 2) respect the belt by facing a mandatory, I think we should wait and see what happens next. Title fights are the way elite boxers make the most money, and as a defending champ you guarantee them. Kessler is too good not to be involved in big fights, I hope he and others both allow them to happen.

why do you love kessler?