Kelly Pavlik said that Joe Calzaghe is a fraud

[Sir_Joe]

Fat yanks always pick their fighters, tis a shame really.

[Steel Town USA]

Also Robin Reid, Byron Mitchell, Richie Woodhall, Charles Brewer, not to mention Chris Eubank would all have given Taylor a tough fight had he fought them when Calzaghe did.

Ah, the great Richie Woodhall. Already TKO'd by Keith Holmes and UD'd by Markus Beyer before he fought Calzaghe.

Byron Mitchell. Drew with, then lost to, the great Bruno Girard, and was also beaten by the incomparable Sven Ottke prior to facing Joe. Struggled mightily in two fights against Manny Siaca.

Robin Reid got owned by Thulani Malinga just two fights before stepping in with Calzaghe. Thulani WHO? Reid then suffered even more ownage at the hands of Silvio Branco in his next bout after Joe.

Among the losses on Charles Brewer's record: Robert Thomas TWICE (Thomas was 9-40-3 and 14-40-3 when the fights occurred), Lonnie Beasley (TKO by 1), Rafael Williams (32-13, TKO by 6), Rodney Toney, Sven Ottke twice and Antwun Echols (TKO by 3) ---- and all of these were before he fought Joe, who only managed a UD.

Chris Eubank salvaged draws with Ray Close and Nigel Benn, and lost to Steve Collins TWICE prior to facing Calzaghe.

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I beg to differ when you claim that any of these guys would have beaten Taylor. Let's try to remember here that once upon a time Jermain Taylor was on The Ring's p4p list as high as #6. No one Calzaghe faced was ever rated that highly -- not even Kessler, who I believe is a VERY good boxer and probably Joe's best opponent to date.

Taylor gets a lot of credit for his wins over B-Hop, but really he won those fights by default because Hopkins could no longer find a MWs workrate. Taylor didn't do anything special and has been less than stellar since, drawing with an old Winky and losing to Pavlik.

The Hopkins that Taylor beat was a younger, better version than the one Joe beat. And Winky, at 35, was still a top 10 p4p fighter and an extremely tough proposition for any opponent. How can you be so dismissive of the Winkster?! And there are far worse things than losing to a young, hungry monster like Pavlik.

Its not clear which elite opponents (Taylor) can beat. Pavlik? No. Kessler? Probably not. Abraham? Doubtful. He willl soon be fighting Jeff Lacy!

Taylor will destroy Lacy, who is the definition of a one-dimensional fighter. He's got short arms and a left hook that could do some damage if it ever happens to land. That's it. I like how Taylor matches up with Abraham, and I believe Jermain wins that fight. Kessler is a toss up.

See what I'm saying. All the guys I listed were regarded as good fighters in their day, but losses to Calzaghe and then a few more further down the line mean they aren't so well thought of now. It is very likely that history will come to regard jermain Taylor in this light.

Problem is, I don't think Taylor is done quite yet. He will make some noise in the SMW division, and I believe he will go down as a better fighter than any of the guys you listed, save perhaps Kessler or Abraham (who really doesn't factor into this discussion because Joe hasn't faced him either).

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Anyway, I don't want you to think I'm saying Calzaghe is rubbish or a fraud -- I'm not. I just believe that, mostly because of circumstance (and not ducking, as some haters would claim), Joe has not had the opportunity to show his greatness against many true prime p4p players (probably excepting Kessler). So I stick to my argument that Kelly's two wins over Jermain Taylor are as good as any individual victories on Joe's resume.

All that said, I am still a bit upset that a Calzaghe-Pavlik fight will probably never come off. I understand why, but that's the kind of matchup that could truly elevate both guys, and I think it would be a very close fight.

[Dirk Diggler UK]

Wow someone's a boxrec merchant!

Taylor wouldnt have been **** had the judges got it right first time round against Hopkins. How anyone can say Taylor's "wins" over Hopkins were somehow more "impressive" than Calzaghe's is funny. Considering Calzaghe clearly beat Hopkins and people still debate both Taylor-Hopkins fights.

Taylor was overrated. He struggled to beat welterweights.

[hunter22]

Pavlik beat prime lockett. godda be the best

[Steel Town USA]

Wow someone's a boxrec merchant!

Just stating the facts, bro. And the facts make the majority of Calzaghe's opponents look, well, above average at best.

Taylor wouldnt have been **** had the judges got it right first time round against Hopkins. How anyone can say Taylor's "wins" over Hopkins were somehow more "impressive" than Calzaghe's is funny. Considering Calzaghe clearly beat Hopkins and people still debate both Taylor-Hopkins fights.

Taylor-Hopkins I was very close. Almost too close to call. Taylor-Hopkins II was a close but clear win for Jermain.

There are many people who will claim that Hopkins beat Calzaghe (I am not one of them). B-hop definitely landed the cleaner, harder punches -- just not in a high enough volume. Joe quite simply outworked the aged Hopkins, who was three years older and 15 pounds heavier than he was when he fought Taylor.

[The Dragon]

Calzaghe is having one more fight before he retires I dont blame him for fighting a legend in Roy Jones Jr instead of a Very Dangerous Kelly Pavlik - I have a horrible feeling Calzaghe is going to lose his last fight !

[The Dragon]

Steel Town USA - What was the age difference between Taylor v Hopkins and Calzaghe v Hopkins

If you are bringing age into the debate ?

[Steel Town USA]

Steel Town USA - What was the age difference between Taylor v Hopkins and Calzaghe v Hopkins

If you are bringing age into the debate ?

Don't quite understand how that factors into the equation. My only point was that Calzaghe should not get more credit for beating a 43-year old Hopkins than Taylor does for beating a 40-year old version of the same man. The ages of Taylor/Calzaghe are irrelevant as far as this discussion goes -- I was only using on the age of the common opponent as a reference point.

[The Dragon]

Steel Town USA - There are posters who always bring up the age of a fighter if he losses and that he would not have beat him in his "prime" which I think is rubbish.

I thought you were saying Taylors victory over Hopkins was better than Calzaghe's victory over Hopkins as Hopkins was younger when he fought Taylor!

[roundingace]

He should already be considered a fraud for taking this fight. What about Abraham? Sturm? A single super middleweight?

Nah lets pick a welterweight!!

But the Light Heavyweight Champ is scared of me!

Gimmie a break. Pavliks people and his fanboys crack me up!

Those you mention are already have bouts to deal with. So they aren't on the table and most people know this. Pavlik is trying to stay active and with limited opposition, of course people are going to complain. What should he do, wait? He's staying busy and there is nothing he can do about the lack of who you wanna see being a possibility for his next fight.