Kelly Pavlik said that Joe Calzaghe is a fraud

[The Dragon]

roundingace - Pavlik could fight " Winky " ?

[roundingace]

I agree, but somehow Winky thinks he deserves the lions share of the pie and won't compromise. What can be done with someone like that? I'd personally rather see Wink than Williams but as I said, Wink seems to be a tad too greedy in the negotiations.

[Live Dog]

Steel Town USA - There are posters who always bring up the age of a fighter if he losses and that he would not have beat him in his "prime" which I think is rubbish.

I thought you were saying Taylors victory over Hopkins was better than Calzaghe's victory over Hopkins as Hopkins was younger when he fought Taylor!

He is saying that.

[Steel Town USA]

He is saying that (Taylor's victory over Hopkins was better than Calzaghe's victory over Hopkins as Hopkins was younger when he fought Taylor).

Or, at the very least, that Taylor's victories over B-Hop cannot possibly rank any lower than Calzaghe's.

[The Dragon]

There is approx 13 years between Taylor and Hopkins compared to approx 7 years between Calzaghe and Hopkins so if you were one of these posters thats looks at age as an excuse for losing ( I am not one ) then you would have to say Calzaghe's win was better than Taylors ?

[hugh grant]

come on now Mr Pavlik. No need to call JC a fraud. JC has beaten more and better people than you have for a longer period.
Just because he hasnt fought you, you feel you have the right to call him a fraud. You havent fought JC and JC hasnt called you a fraud yet.
Be nice now ghost.

[PrettyBoyFloyd7]

Joe Calslappy (Slap for Slap the worst fighter in the world) is a fraud. Defend your WBO Supermiddle weight championship to a bum off the streets of Wales every month for a decade...Anybody could do that. Calzaghe can't retire any time soon and expect to have a legacy. I give him credit for being the Linear 168 and 175 champ at the same time, but the ONLY good names on his resume are Jeff Lacy,Mikkel Kessler,and Hopkins...The Manfredo Stoppage was a disgrace to the sport, and that referee deserves to get shot or tied up and just take flush sam peter rabbit punches all day until he dies

[Dirk Diggler UK]

Just stating the facts, bro. And the facts make the majority of Calzaghe's opponents look, well, above average at best.



Taylor-Hopkins I was very close. Almost too close to call. Taylor-Hopkins II was a close but clear win for Jermain.

There are many people who will claim that Hopkins beat Calzaghe (I am not one of them). B-hop definitely landed the cleaner, harder punches -- just not in a high enough volume. Joe quite simply outworked the aged Hopkins, who was three years older and 15 pounds heavier than he was when he fought Taylor.

No you're twisting facts to suit your argument. Chris Eubank was a great fighter, hall of famer yet you use two close defeats against Collins - who was also a world class fighter - against him like he's a bum.

Charles Brewer lost 2 split decisions to Ottke in Germany where you can knock out Ottke and still only get a draw. He had a suspect chin but was a world champ and still considered dangerous in the divion. Using early losses against him to discredit Calzaghe is the tactic of a fool. Hopkins lost his first pro fight to some bum. Guess we can discredit all his future achievements?

Theres certainly more controversy surrounding Hopkins vs Taylor 1 and 2 than Hopkins vs Calzaghe. Hopkins landed the cleaner punches against Calzaghe - pity there was only about 4 of them in a 12 round fight. Hopkins beat up and hurt Taylor down the stretch in the first fight.

[Dirk Diggler UK]

Those you mention are already have bouts to deal with. So they aren't on the table and most people know this. Pavlik is trying to stay active and with limited opposition, of course people are going to complain. What should he do, wait? He's staying busy and there is nothing he can do about the lack of who you wanna see being a possibility for his next fight.

Abraham has a bout?

Sturm has a bout?

The ENTIRE Super Middleweight division is busy?

The ENTIRE Light Heavyweight division is busy?

So the next step is to go to WELTERWEIGHT?

[Steel Town USA]

No you're twisting facts to suit your argument. Chris Eubank was a great fighter, hall of famer yet you use two close defeats against Collins - who was also a world class fighter - against him like he's a bum.

Eubank fought to draws with Nigel Benn and Ray Close fairly well on into his career (he had almost 40 bouts under his belt by that time). And you talk about Steve Collins as if he were an ATG. Please. While they may not be bums, neither one of those guys smelled the top 10 p4p on any credible lists. Good fighters? Certainly. Career-defining opponents? Hardly.

Using (Brewer's) early losses against him to discredit Calzaghe is the tactic of a fool. Hopkins lost his first pro fight to some bum. Guess we can discredit all his future achievements?

Dude, Brewer had already lost EIGHT times when he fought Calzaghe (three by KO), and not all of them were early on. That's a little different than B-Hop losing his very first fight on points in a 4-rounder. And I'm not discrediting Joe -- merely pointing out that he was a king in a very weak division, a la Rocky Marciano.

Theres certainly more controversy surrounding Hopkins vs Taylor 1 and 2 than Hopkins vs Calzaghe. Hopkins landed the cleaner punches against Calzaghe - pity there was only about 4 of them in a 12 round fight.

Yes, I said that Hopkins simply didn't land (or throw) enough to beat Calzaghe. And I believe that Hopkins, though he was already displaying signs of wear against Taylor, really began to show his age when he fought Winky -- atrocious punch output, ridiculously flagrant holding (even for him), etc. The difference between 40 and 43 can be huge, or at least very noticeable.

Hopkins beat up and hurt Taylor down the stretch in the first fight.

Mostly because Taylor gassed. He was much stronger down the stretch in the second Hopkins fight as well as in the Winky fight. And like I said, I think Hopkins was a bit more fresh (albeit minimally) against Taylor than he was against Calzaghe.

Bottom line: Calzaghe was/is a great champion who has had the unfortunate luck to reign over a division void of truly world class talent. Kessler is by far his best win IMO (and a very nice one at that), but a fight with Pavlik would have really done a lot to secure his legacy. Unfortunately, for reasons outlined ad nauseam on here, the fight won't go off. And as such, Calzaghe's legacy will never be considered among the sport's very very best champions.