Why Marquez will always be a step behind Pacquiao and Barrera

[Left Hook Tua]

Morales and Barrera gave their all in their trilogy, but it went to the judges all the same in every fight. Same deal with Morales vs Pacquaio, Barrera vs Hamed, Pacquaio vs JMM I and II, Pacquaio vs Larios, and Pacquaio vs Barrera II. Hamed didn't leave much to the judges but he also only fought one elite fighter his entire career and got throughly outboxed. In a nutshell, not everyone wins by knockout, especially when it's two elite fighters facing each other. And sometimes elite fighters do not press for the KO, such as Pac vs MAB II. MAB clearly just wanted to last the distance against Pac, and Pac was content to let him do that. Same with Larios.

Pac vs JMM has produced two awesome, razor-close fights. Personally, I felt like JMM won both fights, but the results were fair. That said, saying that JMM loses because he doesn't show the judges that he wants it enough is ridiculous.

it went to decision but erik and marco were trying to knock each other's heads off.

in the 2nd pac fight i think manny was trying to ko marco. marco is just too skilled (even in his old age) to let that happen. marco is not the kind of guy you ko with ease. (the junior and manny fights aside)

i agree that to say juanma doesn't try to win is wrong. juan obviously is trying to win. the point i was trying to make is that his style itself is conducive to getting a few bad breaks from the judges.

[Boofdatruth]

Greatest Featherweights (122-130) of this Era

1. Morales
2. Barrera
3. Pacquiao
4. Marquez
5. Hamed

Name the one guy on that list that leaves it up to the judges? I know he's had bad luck with judges (Norwood , John , Pacquiao) but he has himself to blame for that as well. I know it's not his style and he's better as a counterpuncher but there's a reason people say "Don't leave it up to the judges."

The only ko's that have hapenned with the guys you name are against Pac. Morales, Marquez, and Barrera have all went to the judges. Pac has too with Marquez, barrera and morales????????? And my reason for Barrera and Morales losing to Pac is that those guys were not the same after having full careers BEFORE fighting Pac. Morales showed that if he were younger, he could probably beat manny every time out POSSIBLY, WHO KNOWS. Pac has gotten better. But Morales got ring old after the Rraheem fight. Barrera started fighting lesser comp after beating hamed, and didn't even fight Pac back in the first fight. The rematch barrera showed his skills and he frustrated Pac. Pac won on looking like he landed. He didn't really land on Barrera. Watch the Barrera-Pac rematch. Imo it was closer than the scores indicated.

[Boofdatruth]

it went to decision but erik and marco were trying to knock each other's heads off.

in the pac fight i think manny was trying to ko marco. marco is just too skilled (even in his old age) to let that happen. marco is not the kind of guy you ko with ease. (the junior and manny fights aside)

i agree that to say juanma doesn't try to win is wrong. juan obviously is trying to win. the point i was trying to make is that his style itself is conducive to getting a few bad breaks from the judges.

I agree, guys can't just turn it up to get a ko. Guys at this level are hard to ko. They have pride. There is no on/off switch guys have to ko guys.

[El Dominicano]

Ya he did all that, and didn't win, had a close fight with Barrera. That goes to show, he's missing something big.

MAB beat Marquez. MAB droped him and didn't get the call and after taking another swing at him got a point taken away. MAB cleary won that in my opinion. As for MAb against Pacman. MAB seemed scared the 2nd time. The 1st fight seem to have had an effect on him.

[-Hyperion-]

this thread is just so idiotic.....

i mean morales and barrera sure as hell didnt go for the KO in their fights, thats why they went to a decision 3 times(2 controversial), right?????


marquez never went for the KO thats why he had pacquiao doing a small version of the judah dance right???.......

bad judges are part of the sport(they shouldnt.....but all the ****** organization of boxing and even fans see all the mistakes and dont wanna do anything about it......see Soto-Lorenzo for proof of how much crap is allowed to happen), you cant blame a sportsman for their mistakes.....

[Left Hook Tua]

barrera was a bad man!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

http://youtube.com/watch?v=_VpQ5edOXOA&feature=user

[-Hyperion-]

i love it how when marquez does his counterpunching, then he is setting himself up to be robbed....


then you get hopkins and floyd(who are as aggressive as a ****ing poodle) doing their counterpunching, and theyre "master ring generals racking up the points"

[BOLLOCKS]

BECAUSE BARRERA SCHOOLED JMM,AND JMM IS A ******!

[HitBattousai]

it went to decision but erik and marco were trying to knock each other's heads off.

in the 2nd pac fight i think manny was trying to ko marco. marco is just too skilled (even in his old age) to let that happen. marco is not the kind of guy you ko with ease. (the junior and manny fights aside)

i agree that to say juanma doesn't try to win is wrong. juan obviously is trying to win. the point i was trying to make is that his style itself is conducive to getting a few bad breaks from the judges.

MAB is very skilled, even in his old age, but he was not trying to win that night imo. He basically pumped out nothing but his jab, was in straight survival mode, and Pac just sat back and used his superior speed to slip in a telling shot every now and then and win the rounds, he only aggressively pursued MAB one time in the fight, briefly in the 11th round, and that was the one time he had him in trouble. And discounting MAB, Larios is not an elite fighter, but Pac was content to casually outbox him as well.

Even in Pac vs JMM II, I felt beforehand that if the Pac from the third Morales fight showed up, that Pac would win clearly, because he had his usual fiery intensity, coupled with his ever-improving skills(though Morales was done at that point). However, while technically, he was the best I had seen him in Marquez II, his usual fire wasn't there imo. He was still good enough to make it close, and get the nod on the cards, but I didn't feel like I saw Pac's best effort out there. I, quite frankly, thought Marquez wanted it more that night, and closed the fight out better proving that.

I do understand your point that Marquez does not generally play the aggressor with his style however.

[Left Hook Tua]

The only ko's that have hapenned with the guys you name are against Pac. Morales, Marquez, and Barrera have all went to the judges. Pac has too with Marquez, barrera and morales????????? And my reason for Barrera and Morales losing to Pac is that those guys were not the same after having full careers BEFORE fighting Pac. Morales showed that if he were younger, he could probably beat manny every time out POSSIBLY, WHO KNOWS. Pac has gotten better. But Morales got ring old after the Rraheem fight. Barrera started fighting lesser comp after beating hamed, and didn't even fight Pac back in the first fight. The rematch barrera showed his skills and he frustrated Pac. Pac won on looking like he landed. He didn't really land on Barrera. Watch the Barrera-Pac rematch. Imo it was closer than the scores indicated.

guys , please don't confuse me with the other guys posts.

i never really said anything about not going for a ko or not trying to win the fight.

the point i was trying to make , although from the response i might have not stated it correctly , is that marquez's style is conducive to a decision being wrong or not in his favor.

can i at least get some agreement on that. a close fight is a close fight no matter the styles but juan ma's is more conducive to those kind of bad decisions or pick 'em type decisions. you don't have to ko somebody for it to be conclusive.