Where Is Roy Jones On The ATG List?

[IMDAZED]

Because they were very young. Years later and many fights later they have some decent success. In Gonzales case he was 23 years old, thats green. At 26 he won the WBO belt. Fighters like Woods dont really help your cause, their decent at best. The Hopkins fight was a good win for the time. He was far from his best and didnt hit the p4p list untill years later. Actully its probably his best win, to this day people still talk about his boring close decision from 1993. lol

You measure "green" by age? What did you think of Felix Trinidad at 20?

Gonzalez was 27-0 and very much in the prime of his career. You mention that he won the WBO belt at 26 but he challenged for ALL THREE belts three years earlier. He just so happened to be fighting the wrong guy.

Finally, what do you mean by fighters like Woods don't help my case because he's decent? Who said he was great? I am merely pointing out that prior to facing Jones, he was ridiculed as a fighter who had no business fighting for a title yet this same fighter fought tooth and nail with Glen Johnson a year later and went on to win a title anyway.

[Allucard]

Theirs nothing great about that, nothing amazing. It was a KO of a slow bum.

Look closer. I can't believe the lighting quickness of those uppercuts! Judah who?

[Darkstar]

You measure "green" by age? What did you think of Felix Trinidad at 20?

Gonzalez was 27-0 and very much in the prime of his career. You mention that he won the WBO belt at 26 but he challenged for ALL THREE belts three years earlier. He just so happened to be fighting the wrong guy.

Finally, what do you mean by fighters like Woods don't help my case because he's decent? Who said he was great? I am merely pointing out that prior to facing Jones, he was ridiculed as a fighter who had no business fighting for a title yet this same fighter fought tooth and nail with Glen Johnson a year later and went on to win a title anyway.

Gonzalez at that point was nothing.(he just happen to be 23 years old) Most his wins were against fighters with losing records. Before he fought Jones who did he beat? Julian Letterlough is about it. What did Letterlough turn out to be? Nothing.

Woods is a subpar fighter is what I meant. He won a vacant title. Ive seen the Johnson fights and I think Johnson got robbed in the one where he didnt get the decision. But we all know Johnson is tough, when RJJ ran into him he got KTFO.

[Darkstar]

Look closer. I can't believe the lighting quickness of those uppercuts! Judah who?

Who said that wasnt lighting fast? He has very fast hands, no doubt about that.

But that was agaisnt a already out on his feet, slow Vinny Pazienza. The former lightweight who lost all his big fights.

[IMDAZED]

Gonzalez at that point was nothing.(he just happen to be 23 years old) Most his wins were against fighters with losing records. Before he fought Jones who did he beat? Julian Letterlough is about it. What did Letterlough turn out to be? Nothing.

Woods is a subpar fighter is what I meant. He won a vacant title. Ive seen the Johnson fights and I think Johnson got robbed in the one where he didnt get the decision. But we all know Johnson is tough, when RJJ ran into him he got KTFO.

Ohhh.now Gonzalez was "nothing." I coulda sworn you said he was "green." Ehh well..nothing...so much nothing that he headlined an HBO pay-per-view that did better numbers than any previous Jones pay-per-view except for Toney. Right kid. He was the same fighter at 23 that he was at 26. Sure he gained experience within that time but no more than he gained going 12 rounds against Jones. Your original premise was that he was green when he fought Roy. You're wrong.

Ok...now Woods is subpar. You downgraded him from decent in 15 minutes lololol. You're right. Subpar fighters battle tooth and nail with Glen Johnson. And I watched the fights too. Johnson deserved the decision in the first bout but that's about it.

But you're leading me astray from my original point - hey, I would too if I were you. Gonzalez was not "green" when he fought Jones and Woods - whether you think he's "subpar" or not - turned out to be far better than what people thought prior to his fighting Jones.

[MELLY-MEL...]

top 10 for me ****ers!!!!!!!!

[Darkstar]

Ohhh.now Gonzalez was "nothing." I coulda sworn you said he was "green." Ehh well..nothing...so much nothing that he headlined an HBO pay-per-view that did better numbers than any previous Jones pay-per-view except for Toney. Right kid. He was the same fighter at 23 that he was at 26. Sure he gained experience within that time but no more than he gained going 12 rounds against Jones. Your original premise was that he was green when he fought Roy. You're wrong.

Ok...now Woods is subpar. You downgraded him from decent in 15 minutes lololol. You're right. Subpar fighters battle tooth and nail with Glen Johnson. And I watched the fights too. Johnson deserved the decision in the first bout but that's about it.

But you're leading me astray from my original point - hey, I would too if I were you. Gonzalez was not "green" when he fought Jones and Woods - whether you think he's "subpar" or not - turned out to be far better than what people thought prior to his fighting Jones.

Baldomir has been on a HBO PPV main event, what does that mean? Back then anybody Jones foguht could be on a PPV agaisnt him. Thats exactly who they put agaisnt him "anybody".

Thats right Gonzalez was nothing when he fought RJJ. He hadnt beat a even decent name, most of his wins were agaisnt fighters with losing records. He went on to be a decent fighter at best, years later. What ive been sayin the whole time.

Woods is a decent fighter like I said,but if you realy think about it. In the bigger picture of things, he is subpar in the fact he lost all his biggest fights. Taver,Johnson,Jones.

Thats the problem with Jones. You guys give him all the credit in the world for beating anyone and every one.

The Clinton Woods
Glen Kellys
Derrick Harmons
Richard Halls
David Telescos

[Steak]

Who said that wasnt lighting fast? He has very fast hands, no doubt about that.

But that was agaisnt a already out on his feet, slow Vinny Pazienza. The former lightweight who lost all his big fights.

not true, Pazienza had big wins at 154lbs and up after he went through a serious injury that was supposed to end his career. I dont rememeber what that injury was tho

Pazienza lost a lot of his big fights, but he was still a really good fighter and only lost to really fighters himself.
not so much by the time Roy fought him tho. Im pretty sure he earned his title shot after beating Duran though, so cant really blame Roy for that fight.

[IMDAZED]

Wow, Darkstar. Not good...

Baldomir has been on a HBO PPV main event, what does that mean? Back then anybody Jones foguht could be on a PPV agaisnt him. Thats exactly who they put agaisnt him "anybody".

Umm...it means Baldomir was the welterweight champ. A title he got from Zab Judah. He also beat a faded Arturo Gatti. In other words, you had to do something or be someone.

So back then anybody could've fought Jones on pay-per-view? How so? And who else did he fight on pay-per-view PRIOR to Gonzalez? Go on, tell me...while you're at it, let me know how their numbers were. When you can't find it, let me know. I have the info right here.

Thats right Gonzalez was nothing when he fought RJJ. He hadnt beat a even decent name, most of his wins were agaisnt fighters with losing records. He went on to be a decent fighter at best, years later. What ive been sayin the whole time.

What you've been saying is a whole lot of nothing. Gonzalez was nothing when he fought Jones but became decent later. LOLOL. How did he do that? Did he go see a voodoo priest? Or did the guys he fought after Jones - guys way worse than Jones - make him better than when he fought Roy? LOL.

Woods is a decent fighter like I said,but if you realy think about it. In the bigger picture of things, he is subpar in the fact he lost all his biggest fights. Taver,Johnson,Jones.

I don't know what "subpar in the fact" means. Especially when you tell me in the previous sentence that he's a decent fighter. So what are you saying? Like I said, Woods was thought to be a bum prior to facing Jones. Turns out he was far from it - decent, as you would say. Let me know when you're ready to make a clear, cohesive point.

Thats the problem with Jones. You guys give him all the credit in the world for beating anyone and every one.

The Clinton Woods
Glen Kellys
Derrick Harmons
Richard Halls
David Telescos

Umm...not really. We give him credit for beating the James Toney's, Bernard Hopkins, and a slew of other names - some of whom you actually mentioned as good fighters. Only a natural born hater would dare say we give Jones credit for beating Glen Kelly. No one but YOU has ever said that. I think we're done here.

[Darkstar]

Wow, Darkstar. Not good...


Umm...it means Baldomir was the welterweight champ. A title he got from Zab Judah. He also beat a faded Arturo Gatti. In other words, you had to do something or be someone.

So back then anybody could've fought Jones on pay-per-view? How so? And who else did he fight on pay-per-view PRIOR to Gonzalez? Go on, tell me...while you're at it, let me know how their numbers were. When you can't find it, let me know. I have the info right here.



What you've been saying is a whole lot of nothing. Gonzalez was nothing when he fought Jones but became decent later. LOLOL. How did he do that? Did he go see a voodoo priest? Or did the guys he fought after Jones - guys way worse than Jones - make him better than when he fought Roy? LOL.



I don't know what "subpar in the fact" means. Especially when you tell me in the previous sentence that he's a decent fighter. So what are you saying? Like I said, Woods was thought to be a bum prior to facing Jones. Turns out he was far from it - decent, as you would say. Let me know when you're ready to make a clear, cohesive point.



Umm...not really. We give him credit for beating the James Toney's, Bernard Hopkins, and a slew of other names - some of whom you actually mentioned as good fighters. Only a natural born hater would dare say we give Jones credit for beating Glen Kelly. No one but YOU has ever said that. I think we're done here.

RJJ couldnt have too many PPVs because the public wasnt buying it . RJJ and HBO were doing nothing more than never ending Showcase fights. Its hard to sell PPVs when your fighting nobodys like Derrick Harmon, Glen Kelly,
Richard Hall,David Telesco.

When talking about this Gonzalez fight, Im looking back in hindsight. Like ive said: Gonzalez was a green 23 year old pro with a 27-0 record, who beat mostly nobodys with losing records. At that point hadnt beat anything close to a big name. Looking at Gonzalez career as whole now, he turned out to be a decent fighter at best. Years later he won the WBO belt.

I give him credit from the few good names he has had faced and beat.
To this day you have to go all the way back to 1993 to get Jones best wins. The Hopkins fight was a good win for the time. Hopkins was far from his best and didnt hit the p4p list untill years later. Actully its probably his best win, to this day people still talk about his boring close decision from 1993. The Toney win in 1994 was good, too bad Jones never accepted the rematch. Also you could say a Hopkins rematch should have happend, but Jones priced him self out.

Lets not forget that Taver beat him IMO 3 times. One of which he got KTFO. Also when finally fighting another good fighter in Johnson he got KTFO and couldnt even leave the ring under his own power.

Many people gave Jones credit for beating Glen Kelly. Using the gif as a example of Jones "greatness". Woods is a decent fighter at best, like ive been saying. Then in hindsight lost all his big fights. So what does that make him? Nothing great, IMO subpar. So a win over him means? Another mediocre fighter beat.


Its obvious you love Jones and nothing will ever sway your vote. Your mind has been made up for years hes great. Im not a Jones hater, ive said he was good. But the question to this thread was where he is ALL TIME. Your guys are talking top 5,10 of ALL TIME. No way in hell. This isnt a question of "what he could have done", his great genetics, his great hand speed. Were talking what he actully did in the ring, not all the hype. Not who you THINK he could beat. Who he really fought and beat. Jones could have been top 20 but he never missed an opportunity to miss an opportunity.