I don't think Enzo wants any part of Pavlik

[DuttyAlacrity]

Joe Calzaghe is incredibly hard to hit with any regularity. He has eaten less leather in his whole career than some fighters do in a single bout.

I don't think that's really due to his defense, I think his offense and his foot movement discourages his opponents so they throw less i.e. (lacy kessler). His workrate smothers them and they fold.

[squealpiggy]

Let's not forget that Joe has campaigned at a higher weight division and has dismantled bigger punchers than Pavlik without too much trouble. The only think Calzaghe has against him is his age. Pavlik hits hard but this fight tonight is essentially meaningless, a real step back from his last three opponents.

[RodBarker]

Thing is, I don't dislike Pavlik or even think he's a bad fighter, he is very good. Unfortunately for him he is somewhat ponderous and static, stylistically made for JC.

By the way, in order to think anyone is going to "destroy" the never-even-seriously-hurt Joe Calzaghe you have to being pretty short sighted yourself I think.

Fair points although I disagree with static , he is deceivingly quick for being ponderous , Kelly is straight backed and tall but he is very aggressive and mixes his punches up great and everything he lands hurts and he can box , Kessler often compared to Kelly but really not like him at all , Kelly also has a lot more **** him than Kessler .

On top of that my short sightedness thought it seen Joe look pretty old against a 43yr old , Kelly might be a little to full on at this stage of the game .

[krispy kreme]

Let's not forget that Joe has campaigned at a higher weight division and has dismantled bigger punchers than Pavlik without too much trouble. The only think Calzaghe has against him is his age. Pavlik hits hard but this fight tonight is essentially meaningless, a real step back from his last three opponents.

Who were the bigger punchers?

[abadger]

I can't lie I haven't, other than Hopkins fight, the short clips of his past victories, and some of the kessler fight. But judging from what I saw against Hopkins I say yes Calzaghe will more than likely lose. And I didn't say anything about chin, workrate, defense, movement, and skill- which Pavlik is all superior in.




We also watched him KO & then again defeat the former best middleweight, Jermain Taylor, who would probably also beat Calzaghe.

The only answer I have for you is to recommend in the strongest possible terms that you watch the Kessler v Calzaghe fight in full (you can dl it from the video trading block of this forum I think). While you watch it, forget any opinions you have of the fighters and look at it just as two boxers you never heard of. Afterwards, ask yourself really if you still think that Pavlik is a better defensively, in terms of speed, workrate, movement defense or skill, and whether Calzaghe has anything other than a chin of iron.

Please, if you really think that you are right and I am wrong then don't argue with me, just watch that fight, and argue with me afterwards. Deal?

[abadger]

Fair points although I disagree with static , he is deceivingly quick for being ponderous , Kelly is straight backed and tall but he is very aggressive and mixes his punches up great and everything he lands hurts and he can box , Kessler often compared to Kelly but really not like him at all , Kelly also has a lot more **** him than Kessler .

On top of that my short sightedness thought it seen Joe look pretty old against a 43yr old , Kelly might be a little to full on at this stage of the game .

Calzaghe is getting old, and anyone who fights on too long will get beat eventually, so it is possible that Pavlik could be the man to do it, if Joe is really past it.

I don't think he is however, so I am prepared to pick him as the definite winner of this one, should they ever fight.

[squealpiggy]

Who were the bigger punchers?

Kessler, Lacy, Mitchell. All bigger fighters and all bigger punchers than Kelly Pavlik.

[Clegg]

I disagree

Well there are people already saying that Jones would beat Calzaghe, so...

Calzaghe/RJJ is a meaningless fight. And Calzaghe shouldn't fight Jones. Jones has no belts, the recent win against a faded Tito means nothing, and clearly Jones is a shell of his former greatness. This is a payday fight for Jones and Calzaghe.

I agree, but there are those who do not.

WTF??? Pavlik is the undisputed middleweight champ. He destroyed Taylor and both Taylor and Calzaghe struggled against Hopkins. I don't think there's another boxer that is thought of more highly than Pavlik except other undisputed champs.

The following is not what I believe, but it's what a moron looking to discredit a win would say:

Pavlik wasn't p4p top 10 in most people's eyes. His only meaningful win was over Taylor, who almost KO'd him in the first fight and pushed him close enough in the second that more than a few people had Taylor winning the fight. It's true that he was the champion but come on, middleweight was hardly over-flowing with talent. Look no further than his first defense to see how poor the standard of challengers was.

The fact is that Pavlik doesn't have much experience against southpaws and that showed. If you watch his fight with Bronko McKart you'll see that Pavlik had problems and was even knocked down. I mean ffs Bronko McKart is an old man and he knocked down Pavlik, yet Calzaghe couldn't do it even though he is naturally much bigger than McKart?

Another southpaw that would give him problems is Winky Wright, but of course Pavlik wouldn't fight him. I guess we know why now.

Look at what happened in round 5, that proves Calzaghe's defensive flaws that would be exploited by [insert name of top LHW here]. Look at what happened in round 11, that shows that Pavlik was starting to adapt and figure out Calzaghe's style etc.

You see what I mean? You don't need to go through the above point by point, the fact is that there are people on this forum who hold views that are just as ******. There are people on this forum who probably watch about 4/5 fights a year.

Look at the views of Hyperion on Pavlik. Right now he's in the minority, but if Pavlik was to lose to Calzaghe then certain people would suddenly start to hold those views as well. And Hyperion is a knowledgeable guy as well. If a knowledgeable guy can think that, I've no doubt that the less intelligent posters easily could.

It won't change anything because CAlzaghe is the man around already 168.. Calzaghe/Pavlik is just a way better fight with much more significance than Calzaghe/Jones.

Well if Pavlik beats Calzaghe at 168 then that would no longer be the case. Granted, Calzaghe is set to retire but his legacy/overall standing will be affected by his next fight.

[x-PeROxiDE-x]

well, calzaghe has speed and awkwardness. I think calzaghe can beat pavlik, but what if pavlik lands that short right hand that hopkins landed??? I don't know if calzaghe will be able to recover especially considering that pavlik is a great finisher.

If Joe is ever in any serious danger, he forgets all about his brittle hands and really lets leather fly. Joe hits a lot harder than Taylor when he really wants to, and Taylor put Kelly on ***** street. Joe will be landing all sorts of shots from angles so obscure that Kelly wont know what is hitting him from where. In the words of Ali, Joe will hit Kelly so much "that he thinks he's surrounded"

I really don't see Joe getting in the ring with Kelly, but I think a fight with RJJ is highly feasible. Not even sure Cal could be RJJ at this point. But, I'm very confident Kelly would beat Joe. I've seen nothing from Joe that tells me he could avoid Kelly's powershots for 12 rounds. Nothing.
Kelly just keeps improving in my eyes, much like Cotto.

Not only is Joe's defense movement possibly the best in the game since Mayweather is done, he also has one of the most resolute chins you will ever see. Joe could take a Pavlik punch flush and if he did go down, he would back up within 6 with a clear head, mark my words.

Yes he has...See Pavlik vs Miranda and Pavlik vs Taylor... . If Miranda and Taylor couldn't stop kelly, there's no way joe's punches are going to have any affect on Kelly. Taylor is tough as a mule... if kelly made JT go in the fetal position... I'm pretty confident he can do the same to Joe. Joe has been knocked down a good couple of times... being knocked down by pavlik is not going to be the same

Miranda throws single power shots, whereas JC throws combinations that, wlthough not as powerful, will be even harder to deal with because of the angles he will be throwing them at. Joe is no slouch when it comes to power either, he hits harder than Taylor, so don't be suprised if he knocks Pavlik down and out.

Who were the bigger punchers?

Kessler, Lacy, Eubank and possibly Mitchell.

They all landed flush on Joe's chin, yet all suffered a KD (apart from Kessler, who was saved by dubious a ref decision) on their way to a very dominating defeat.

[abadger]

I don't think that's really due to his defense, I think his offense and his foot movement discourages his opponents so they throw less i.e. (lacy kessler). His workrate smothers them and they fold.

Calzaghe has excellent head and torso movement for slipping punches when placed on the back foot, also he is very adept at moving into positions his opponent does not expect him to be on completing a flurry. He used to have lightning reflexes too, but these days, perhaps not so much.

The only time he ever really gets hit is when he is coming in for an attack himself, and then only if his opponent is an excellent counter-puncher. He is in fact a back foot fighter, preferring his opponent to come at him, slip his attack and then flurry him while he is exposed. This is the reason that Hopkins wasn't his best performance.