who was the better fighter Muhammad Ali or Ray Leonard

[Boogie Nights]

Ali was the greater fighter.

Leonard was more complete. For the most part, heavyweights are less complete fighters than smaller guys.

that's true the majority of the little guys seem to be more skill-oriented.

even tyson said he wished he was a little guy so he could compete with a more artistic approach.

[Left Hook Tua]

i dont think that the "heavies" are in any danger of getting hurt, because the damage has already been done. some of these cake-eating hippos are an insult to someone like ali, or any other great heavyweight.

the reason i would want a superheavyweight division is to isolate all these hungry bastards and let the real fellas do the work like the oldies went about it. some of these fights are just horrible to watch

back in the days, a heavyweight fight was an event....now it's an undercard stinker.

when was there a last major ppv heavyweight title fight?? maskaev vs past it, overweight rahman???

gone are the days my friend

true. nowadays former middeweights are beating our heavy "champions"

we need younger kids interested in boxing. nowadays unless your family is in boxing no kids aspire to be a boxer. most kids want to play football and basketball. even baseball is suffering from lack of interest from the kids.

[pesticid]

I'd like KG to turn heavy so he can get knocked the **** out. Biggest big man poser in the NBA.

[Left Hook Tua]

I'd like KG to turn heavy so he can get knocked the **** out. Biggest big man poser in the NBA.

his intensity is as fake as kobe's humbleness.......

that said...... the lakers let one get away tonight. they could've won that game tonight. still depressed.......

[Boofdatruth]

Ali was the greater fighter.

Leonard was more complete. For the most part, heavyweights are less complete fighters than smaller guys.

exactamundo...............ali didn;t body punch........that is the difference......but ali was so precise with his jab, and accuracy.........it overwhelms leonard's overall skill.........wait, i can't knock either man...........lol.........both are legends............

[Dynamite Kid]

Just to clarify, does this mean you are saying pound for pound, Leonard would beat Hagler in their respective primes?

yes without a doubt Leonard was a better fighter than Marvin Hagler P4P

[Dynamite Kid]

i dont know the correct figures but id hazzard a guess that generally HW statistically fight on & are more successfull late on in there careers past there primes than fighters from the lighter weights Hell Big George won the title back at when he was a grandad, when u add Leonard's eye problems and inactiveity to the equation & his ******* abuse i think there is a good indicator to why Muhammad Ali had more longevity in his career which allowed him to rack up more notable wins i cant dispute Ali record was probably better cause by sheer number of good names he beat Leonard beat good name but he did not have a list as long as Ali's

but i think P4P Ray in his prime was a better fighter more skilled more complete fighter than Muhammad Ali

[Yogi]

In my opinion Ali was better.

Archie Moore
Doug Jones
Sonny Liston
Floyd Patterson
George Chuvalo
Cleveland Williams
Ernie Terrell
Zora Folley
Jerry Quarry
Oscar Bonavena
Jimmy Ellis
Buster Mathis
Mac Foster
Bob Foster
Joe Bugner
Ken Norton
Joe Frazier
George Foreman
Ron Lyle

compared to

Ranzany
Andy Price
Wilfred Benitez
Roberto Duran
Ayub Kalule
Thomas Hearns
Marvin Hagler
Donny Lalonde

It's the sheer amount of Ali's quality victories, although his p4p worth is hard to calculate because he was a heavyweight and naturally fought smaller and also bigger men.

If Leonard's career had not been cut short by the eye injury then perhaps he would rate higher than Ali IMO, but then again Ali missed 3 years of his prime as well.

I know the heavyweight division generally produces the better named fighters because of the prestige surrounding that weight class, but for the overall quality of a fighter, if you're going to credit some of those guys as conquests for Ali (like Moore, Chuvalo, Williams, etc.), then it certainly wouldn't be a stretch to add a few more names to Leonard's listing, such as Geraldo, Gant, Shields, Muniz, Chiaverini, Green, etc., who were all good enough fighters from those days and who were all ranked contenders (at least half of those six that I named there were ranked top five) at the time when Leonard defeated them.

[hemichromis]

that's debatable. he gave hearns the rematch very late. but that could be because he retired shortly and hearns moved up. he took duran months later for smart reasons

ali also gave rematches. to quarry, to cooper, patterson, frazier, norton, never ducked.

the only man that comes to mind that didnt get the rematch is foreman. but that's debatable because there was no hard pressing for rematch on foreman's side

if foreman had beaten young it would have happened. instead he retired!

[Yogi]

if foreman had beaten young it would have happened.

I would doubt that quite strongly, and my best guess is Ali would've once again announced one of his frequent retirements if Foreman had gotten by Young, just like he did when the foot first came down with the orders for Ali to defend against him after Norton;

"The winner of the Sept 28th fight heavyweight title fight between champion Muhammad Ali and Ken Norton must fight No. 1 contender George Foreman no later than 90 days later, the World Boxing Council says." - UPI report, Aug 20th, 1976

A few days later on Aug 25 and as stated in the AP reports, "Muhammad Ali says he's ignoring a World Boxing Council edict on when he must fight George Foreman."

Ali fights Norton, is very lucky to get the decision, and it wasn't but a short time later when Ali announced one of his frequent retirements during that time. A couple of months later Ali expresses his wishes to fight again, the WBC again steps forward to issue Ali an ultimatum saying he must defend against Foreman only to see Ali express wishes to fight Bobick first and issue comments such as "I am bigger than boxing. I do what I like when I like." and things of that nature, which were said in defiance of the WBC's orders.

Ali/Foreman II was talked about during those late '76/early '77 times and was said to have been planned, but that's no different than the 1975 year when the rematch was talked about a bunch and thought to have been planned for the fall of 1975.

Oh, and contrary to what the other guy said, Foreman did express much interest in getting a rematch after Ali beat him in Zaire, and came right out expressing exactly that not even a week after the fight when the papers on Nov 4th & 5th (and thereabouts) were littered with quotes from Foreman making his request for a rematch amongst other things (particularily his complaints about the ring ropes and such). Foreman also frequently expresssed his interest in a rematch from then on, even appearing on the front cover of Sports Illustrated in the year (I think that issue was from Nov or Dec of '75) after first fighting Ali with a caption along the lines of "I Want Ali Again". Again, it was talked about in 1975, but when Ali was quoted on his intentions he seemed to always say things along the lines of him wishing to have a couple more fights before facing Foreman in a rematch, which completely contradicts Ali's own beliefs when he went on national television after the first Spinks fight crying and pleaing about how it was the ex-champions right to have first dibs on the rematch.

Anyways, like I stated first off, I doubt that the rematch would've ever happened, as it already had plenty of time, interest, orders, and opportunities to happen in the couple/few years before that.