A question...

[Clegg]

I could understand why Joe chose not to fight in Germany because there was an overwhelming chance he would be robbed like the other fighters that fought Ottke. Nobody could beat Ottke in Germany. Not even Tye Fields.

A little known fact is that Tye actually worked in Ottke's corner for the Mundine fight. Now you know why he was such a beast for one night only.

[KnockoutTheFat]

A little known fact is that Tye actually worked in Ottke's corner for the Mundine fight. Now you know why he was such a beast for one night only.

****, I knew there was something up with that Mundine fight. I was wondering how the hell did Ottke obtain such menacing power and now I know why. How the hell did Ottke manage to sway Tye Fields into his corner I'll never know.

[abadger]

Kessler went to Cardiff. Calzaghe refused to go to Copenhagen.

If Joe was so sure of winning over Ottke, why didnt he go to Germany? I honestly believe that Joes handlers was unaware of his true greatness, so they kept protecting him by keeping him home in Britain.

And why didnt Joe fight Nunn or Frankie Liles?

I agree that it is unlikely Joe's people knew he was as good as he has turned out to be, I mean who would have predicted an undefeated career and ten year reign? To do so would have been madness.

With Nunn, the guy was an aging fading ex SMW champ who moved up to LHW in 97 the year Joe won his title. Between 97 and 2000 there were much more compelling matchups to be made against the likes of Reid and Woodhall, since Joe was a UK fighter, and why should Joe have gone up to LHW immediately after winning his title?

Liles would have made a good opponent in 1998 instead of Sobot or Ferreya, but it was a pretty narrow window of opportunity for what would have been only Joe's first or second defence, and then in 99 Liles lost to Byron Mitchell and effectively had his career ended. Calzaghe went on to beat Mitchell four years later.

[Clegg]

****, I knew there was something up with that Mundine fight. I was wondering how the hell did Ottke obtain such menacing power and now I know why. How the hell did Ottke manage to sway Tye Fields into his corner I'll never know.

I asked my history teacher and he said it was because Tye was in Germany as a guest of honour for his actions in WWII, when he marched into Berlin and KO'd Hitler in the 1st round.

People talk about the atom bomb deciding WWII, but the fact is that the most powerful bombs of the war were the massive rights and lefts that Tye unleashed upon 'Der Führer'. No wonder there was nothing left of his body by the time they found him...

[x-PeROxiDE-x]

Umm, because people troll a lot? I mean his level of opposition WAS low. He's at least fighting people with names now. That's pretty much that. It's his fault that it was low. I take issue with THAT part.

That aside, it's pretty clear that he may have been "protected" or "fighting bums" or whatever people say but he has a lot of talent and is clearly a very good fighter. He's proven that even if he's overrated he's not a bum and he doesn't suck.

He's got tons of natural talent. Speed. Great durablity/chin and an iron will.
So what if he's deficient in some other areas? Why does this get to you?

This question HAS been listed several times before. You can name any of these guys:

Roy
Hopkins
Toney
Griffin
Dariusz

blah blah blah blha

The true answer is, no one. If he had stayed in the super middleweight division which he did after Roy and toney left, well he was going to fight bums. Guess what? It's a WORTHLESS division. That was his choice to some extent, and some of it not, just being his weight. How much criticism he should get for that is up for debate, but what's not up for debate is that he HAD a weak resume.

Why?

Lots of reasons, like the ones abadger listed, and others like well you know the SMW division sucking ass.

Joe was pretty much restricted due to his weight, and the fact that he wasn't a big name meant that he couldn't get a fight with one of the "big dogs" so to speak.

This was Joe's big problem, he wasn't a big enough name when he had his title to get a big fight.

Contrary to popular belief, this is not Frank Warren's fault. He actually turned pro under Mickey Duff, who did little to no promotional work and effectively left one of the best fighters around out in the cold for a number of years. When Joe got his title shot, he had only been the distance once, an eight rounder that was actually against Chris Eubanks cousin, Bobbie Joe Edwards. These days, a man who is blitzing through the division in the way Joe did back then would be a huge star by the time they held a belt. As it happened, that wasn't the case, and Joe was left to fight mandatories.

If his career had been managed properly from the off, he would have been fighting the RJJ's and the Hopkins' of this world a damn sight sooner than now, but it wasn't, and that's a shame.

As for Ottke, the guy has more gifts than Santa Claus, I wouldn't blame ANY fighter for not going to Germany, where you had to KO him to get a draw, which was near enough impossible due to his granite chin.

There isn't really anybody else Joe could have fought in his division in his era, yet he receives possibly the most stick resume-wise on these forums, for circumstances completely beyond his control.

He could only beat the man in front of him, and he did, 45 times.

[BattlingNelson]

I could understand why Joe chose not to fight in Germany because there was an overwhelming chance he would be robbed like the other fighters that fought Ottke. Nobody could beat Ottke in Germany. Not even Tye Fields.

The exact same thing could be said for Ottke should he fight in Cardiff. Joes management failed to take the risks when Joe was in his prime. Warren is to blame but so is Joe. He could have pushed harder for an Ottke fight or a fight in america. They failed and thats why Joe is a great fighter who could have been greater.

That is actually one of the first threads I made since joining this forum with the opening post my view of Joe's legacy: http://www.boxingscene.com/forums/sh...d.php?t=169794

[x-PeROxiDE-x]

The exact same thing could be said for Ottke should he fight in Cardiff. Joes management failed to take the risks when Joe was in his prime. Warren is to blame but so is Joe. He could have pushed harder for an Ottke fight or a fight in america. They failed and thats why Joe is a great fighter who could have been greater.

That is actually one of the first threads I made since joining this forum with the opening post my view of Joe's legacy: http://www.boxingscene.com/forums/sh...d.php?t=169794

But Joe has never had a questionable decision in Cardiff, Ottke has had many in Germany.

The only fight that was close enough to be called the other way was against Robin Reid (who DID get robbed in Germany, fighting none other than Sven Ottke) in Newcastle, nowhere near Cardiff, or indeed Wales.

[BattlingNelson]

But Joe has never had a questionable decision in Cardiff, Ottke has had many in Germany.

The only fight that was close enough to be called the other way was against Robin Reid (who DID get robbed in Germany, fighting none other than Sven Ottke) in Newcastle, nowhere near Cardiff, or indeed Wales.

But Joe could still have made a push to fight Ottke or in the US thereby securing his legacy.

As for Ottke. Yes he did have many questionable decisions. Heck I should know since I probably watched all his (boring) defenses. When the decision is announced and it goes against your winner allways ask yourself if you COULD honestly see the other guy winning, and I could see Ottke win (cannot single out the Reid fight sorry). And check Ottkes defenses; some mighty fine wins there.

Ohhhhh ****!! I cannot believe I'm here defending Sven 'Slugger' Ottke.

[Tysonisgod]

Clinton Woods? Tarver? I'm sure in Boxing Monthly mag when it was doin Cals and Hattons top 10 fighters BM would like them to fight, cal said he didnt see the point in fighting either of they guys cos they werent "big names"

[x-PeROxiDE-x]

Clinton Woods? Tarver? I'm sure in Boxing Monthly mag when it was doin Cals and Hattons top 10 fighters BM would like them to fight, cal said he didnt see the point in fighting either of they guys cos they werent "big names"

That's now, not then.

Calzaghe has paid his dues and is winding down his career. He wants only legacy defining fights now, and if they happen to earn him the most money he is not going to complain.