Mayweather Jr. Defends Choice of De La Hoya Over Cotto

[edgarg]

ROD BARKER- Sorry I also meant to say that all you have to do is look u[p Robinson's record and pick them yourself. in MY opinion, for example, if mayweather wcould be transported back to Robinson's time period, and fought Fritzie Zivic, he wouldn't be able to stand the heat, and he'd be picking his teeth up for a week afterwards.

That doesn't mean Zivic was more skilled, it just means that Zivic knew how to "take him to the cleaners". And fritzie was by no means one of Robinson's better opponents. Just my opinion.

ROD BARKER-just off the top of my head, I can think of -apart from Armstrong which I agree with, Tommy Bell and Marty Servo. And, just before his time Barney Ross and Jimmy McLarnin.

[RodBarker]

ROD BARKER- Sorry I also meant to say that all you have to do is look u[p Robinson's record and pick them yourself. in MY opinion, for example, if mayweather wcould be transported back to Robinson's time period, and fought Fritzie Zivic, he wouldn't be able to stand the heat, and he'd be picking his teeth up for a week afterwards.

That doesn't mean Zivic was more skilled, it just means that Zivic knew how to "take him to the cleaners". And fritzie was by no means one of Robinson's better opponents. Just my opinion.

, I think Zivic who lost 65 fights many to guys with only 15 fights and was out pointed by guys with 17 losses had a lot of history where he didnt take a lot of guys to the cleaners ,,

Zivic would see things from Floyd that he never new existed in a boxing ring and would get a severe boxing lessing , the speed and accuracy would give him nightmares , most guys of that era were hard nosed sluggers and puncher sluggers with limited skills .

The boxing skills of Floyds is definitely in the realm of Robinson Ali Leonard , the great natural stylistic fighters in history that really had the Sugar if you know what I mean , the grit to stay in the trenches that you only suspect is not in Floyd ,, and it here you show bias because nobody has been good enough to bring Floyd to the boil , but he has been pushed he has given no suggestion at all that he wont stand the heat of a hard battle , on the contrary when he has been forced to fight he has shown to be 100% thus far ,

So while not even touching on Floyds unknowns , his skills alone are great ,, and thats why he would the beat the **** out your Zivics , he is a class above that level of fighter just the same as Robinson was .

[edgarg]

, I think Zivic who lost 65 fights many to guys with only 15 fights and was out pointed by guys with 17 losses had a lot of history where he didnt take a lot of guys to the cleaners ,,

Zivic would see things from Floyd that he never new existed in a boxing ring and would get a severe boxing lessing , the speed and accuracy would give him nightmares , most guys of that era were hard nosed sluggers and puncher sluggers with limited skills .

The boxing skills of Floyds is definitely in the realm of Robinson Ali Leonard , the great natural stylistic fighters in history that really had the Sugar if you know what I mean , the grit to stay in the trenches that you only suspect is not in Floyd ,, and it here you show bias because nobody has been good enough to bring Floyd to the boil , but he has been pushed he has given no suggestion at all that he wont stand the heat of a hard battle , on the contrary when he has been forced to fight he has shown to be 100% thus far ,

So while not even touching on Floyds unknowns , his skills alone are great ,, and thats why he would the beat the **** out your Zivics , he is a class above that level of fighter just the same as Robinson was .

RODDIE me bhoy you're cheating. THIS TIME I LOOKED IT UP. The guy had 232 fights and lost the majority of that 65 them after he was 30 years old. he also fought just about every top guy around, and lost to them.

In those days 30 was OLD for a fighter. 28 was old. He finally retired aged 37-38. The guy must have been almost half dead. I remember seeing him on a film clip and he looked exactly the way his photos show. DON'T FORGET we're not talking about fighters at the end of their careers but in their PRIME....their PRIME....be fair.

[edgarg]

RODDIE me bhoy you're cheating. THIS TIME I LOOKED IT UP. The guy had 232 fights and lost the majority of that 65 them after he was 30 years old. he also fought just about every top guy around, and lost to them.

In those days 30 was OLD for a fighter. 28 was old. He finally retired aged 37-38. The guy must have been almost half dead. I remember seeing him on a film clip and he looked exactly the way his photos show. DON'T FORGET we're not talking about fighters at the end of their careers but in their PRIME....their PRIME....be fair.

Whadda ya mean "hard nosed sluggers with limited skills". This wasn't in the "dark ages" or the beginnings of boxing. This was in MY OWN lifetime and I can tell if there's any difference in skills. I can tell you ONE thing, that even with the poorer nutrition, smoking, plus fewer and old fashioned facilities in the gyms, the fighters were tougher, and with greater stamina. Maybe it was because they absolutely HAD to fight to live, and weren't the PAMPERED DARLINGS we see around us today....I won't mention any names, that's already been done.

[RodBarker]

RODDIE me bhoy you're cheating. THIS TIME I LOOKED IT UP. The guy had 232 fights and lost the majority of that 65 them after he was 30 years old. he also fought just about every top guy around, and lost to them.

In those days 30 was OLD for a fighter. 28 was old. He finally retired aged 37-38. The guy must have been almost half dead. I remember seeing him on a film clip and he looked exactly the way his photos show. DON'T FORGET we're not talking about fighters at the end of their careers but in their PRIME....their PRIME....be fair.

Im not cheating ol son just pointing out some facts Im not talking about nothing but prime vs prime , Zivic lost regularly all through his career starting in his second fight , I say Floyd out classes like the many that beat him very decisively at all stages of his career .

I guess we can agree to disagree because its plain to see you dont even rate Floyd with historys better fighters let alone its greats , and I think your spin is a little romancing the stone ,, I have only ever said I feel Floyd is good enough to compete in a good fight with any ATG his weight from any era , nothing you have said has changed that notion .

[edgarg]

Im not cheating ol son just pointing out some facts Im not talking about nothing but prime vs prime , Zivic lost regularly all through his career starting in his second fight , I say Floyd out classes like the many that beat him very decisively at all stages of his career .

I guess we can agree to disagree because its plain to see you dont even rate Floyd with historys better fighters let alone its greats , and I think your spin is a little romancing the stone ,, I have only ever said I feel Floyd is good enough to compete in a good fight with any ATG his weight from any era , nothing you have said has changed that notion .

Did you ever read anything in depth about Zivic, or remarks made about him by other (top) fighters that he'd fought? Im thinking that he would have been at his best when he fought Billy Conn, was aged about 25, (probably already had about 50-70 fights) and lost a razor-thin split decision, giving away about 10 lbs. He beat quite a few world champions, and was a rather dirty fighter. it was said that each of his gloves contained a "fistful of thumbs". Mayweather's fouling would be as nothing to him.

Anyway, never mind that. I seem to be getting into all kinds of controversies about my choices and am content to let it drop. We can pick it up again on another fighter or situation later. At least it was pleasant and -up to a point-instructive.

[edgarg]

Did you ever read anything in depth about Zivic, or remarks made about him by other (top) fighters that he'd fought? Im thinking that he would have been at his best when he fought Billy Conn, was aged about 25, (probably already had about 50-70 fights) and lost a razor-thin split decision, giving away about 10 lbs. He beat quite a few world champions, and was a rather dirty fighter. it was said that each of his gloves contained a "fistful of thumbs". Mayweather's fouling would be as nothing to him.

Anyway, never mind that. I seem to be getting into all kinds of controversies about my choices and am content to let it drop. We can pick it up again on another fighter or situation later. At least it was pleasant and -up to a point-instructive.

And I think he beat Henry Armstrong a couple of times, maybe won the world title from him.

[RodBarker]

And I think he beat Henry Armstrong a couple of times, maybe won the world title from him.

And what does that really say because he also lost too Johnny Nobody , so by your reasoning it must mean that if he were to fight Floyd its the Armstrong version thats shows up , if only life was so simple , in the real world it dont always happen that way , with Zivic it didnt happen 65 times , , this is why I say the fighter that turns up in the zone will decide more fights that all other reasons .
This is why pro punters are sitting at barrier starts at 4 am instead of just watching the race results .
Even after all that Floyd beats the Armstrong beater because he is a better fighter than Zivics class of fighter .

The point Im getting at is Floyd is an ATG in this era , and knowing that in a real world where sports science and records knows that there really is not much between the best of each generation or era in sport , from the bottom to the top the classes and the fighters in them a very close , I see no reason that makes logical sense as to why Floyd could not compete with any ATGs his weight class , circumstantial evidence says he can while he is unbeaten ,, untill then its just a lot of what ifs and would haves that says he cant .

Im curious to see where he really does finish up and how he will be viewed 5 yrs down the road , I think a lot detractors under rate where he really is ability wise , but time will expose the bull**** one way or the other , untill then we can have fun blowing off about it

Nice talking to you .

[Horus]

I hope every1 now sees who are the real unfriendly ppl around here. I think that Floyd ''Fans'' argue for the most in a good way. The Haters are throwing some bad remarks around. And if you don't believe it, go back to the first page and start counting.

It's good to see that ppl still care about Floyd. Article is out and a few days later 23 pages. That's nice to see.

It's really sad that some ppl have absolutely no clue about the history and about boxers in history and then start to mix it up an make unbelievable comments. Ray Robinson was every bit of an ******* that you can imagine. And let me tell you that he called his shots. If you think DLH is bad, then you ain't no nothing about Ray Robinson for that matter. But he was still an unique fighter. Like I stated before you can't compare boxer's from this era to the other era. If Floyd would have fought at this time he would also have a lot more fights. And if Ray Robinson would have fought today he would not have that many fights!!! Again the media. I mean you can see how less ppl know about Ray Robinson even though he's ''the greatest fighter ever''. Everybody knows everything about Floyd. If Floyd fought in that age he would probably have a standing like a Willie Pep. But he fights in this era so everybody has to voice his opinion.

It's funny how ppl run down Floyd's opponents. Really it makes me wonder how much they fantasize. You want to see him fight Margarito. First off who has he fought??? I do not want to bash him but who did he fought. Kermit Cintron he beat him up twice ok and lost against Paul Williams. Kermit is mentally a weak fighter and will never beat any real good WW or whatever. Paul Williams has size and his fun to watch but who has he fought??? This fight would be most boring, because floyd would pot shot him all day and move. And also I don't know why Margarito has a right to fight him.

Cotto faced far better competition. But better as Mayweather??? Maybe at 147 pounds but career overall never ever. Because Floyd did fight everybody at his natural weight class and the weight class over it. But I agree the Cotto fight should be the most interesting one. I doubt that Cotto can come close to him enough but he at least has a lot of the tools that is needed to beat Floyd.

I mean it's real fun how you ppl give everybody credit but Floyd. DLH only fought the best??? Yeah, a lot of ppl who were past their primes (one of them twice). And that's the reason why ppl fight so hard to become a markee name, because nobody wants to fight to be 40 and on top. You want to be on top and call your shots. I mean DLH beat up JCC twice and a Whitaker and he surely not did it for his legacy. It was to beat an past prime markee name. Every fighter does it.

Fighters like Bruseless and Sharmba Mitchell if you want to call them weak is something that some ppl call adjusting to a weight. Not everybody jumps from weight to weight and fights the best right away. Bruseless was his first fight I think at JWW and Mitchell his first at WW so whaaat... I mean these two names are the only ones that Haters can come up with??? WOW in 39 fights he fought 2 ''bums''. Arturo Gatti had a name and a crowd at Atlantic City. So it makes business sense.

He's coward??? You can call a boxer maybe mentally weak but coward. I don't know where you take your opinions from. Floyd is not mentally weak so I don't know what you ppl talking about. I've never seen him panic even if something doesn't work the way he wants it to be. He's always in control so I don't know why he should be. About the ducking thing... I think you can tell he ducked everybody that he hasn't fought. But you can also say that every boxer duck everybody that the boxer doesn't fight.

He wanted to face Shane at the time he was 135 I think it was. But Shane wouldn't want to fight him. And I know this can be true because Shane fights everybody. But what should I say, he also said he ain't took steroids. Now he wants Mayweather because he's the man. Shane is a sucker for money like everyone else. But not Shane, no he wants him to fight because he's the best... he had the same skillz at 135 only that he even threw more combo's.

He's not warrior? Why? Because he doesn't go in there with a mediocre opponent and sluggs with him? Because he doesn't give a mediocre opponent a chance to be on a level with him and a chance of winning??? Because against somebody who hasn't the skill set to beat him, he doesn't get hit against the head enough so that his brain cells are dying??? Some ppl have really a weird understanding of boxing. Boxing is not about being a warrior. That was a few Centurys ago in Rome. Boxing is about being a Boxer. I mean it's nice to have legacy and ppl talking about for a long time, but I guess it's not so nice if you ain't got money fpr something that you sacrificed so hard and then even be mentally ill or whatever.

Carlisle... oh you're sparring with ranked HW. You have also a very weird understanding of boxing so I really don't want to know who are these supposed ranked HW's are. This means you are boxer??? And you still want to slap ppl around. Somebody like you should really not have a pic of Muhammad Ali in his Avatar. And also you really picked a fight huh??? Against some1 who's in your weight class... you really a bad man... my respect really grows. As being boxer you should know that a boxer is not allowed to hit any1. So I can open my mouth big time against every boxer I want too. I hope you do it with some1 who doesn't give a **** and really beats you up. Maybe you should opne your mouth up big time against some1 like Mike Tyson. But please do it front of a cam. This is going to be priceless *laugh*

IMO a fighter has not always to fight the best to upstay his position. The P4P list was not invented for some1 who fights the best all the time, it was invented for ppl who have the most skills. It was invented for Ray Robinson because no1 would gave him a title shot but he was still considered the best... so they invented it to name the best boxer. That's the original meaning of it. What you guys make of it it's your problem. Floyd is the most skilled fighter. So he rangs on top rightfully IMO. And also I consider him to fighting the best. He fought DLH, who I consider (even though I don't like him) still one of the best. Yes, he's past his prime... but he would still beat a lot of WW. He fought Hatton who's one of the best JWW. Alright a weight class under it but still one of the best at his class. So I think his competition is really moving up. He fights Oscar again and afterwards it can only be retirement or Cotto. A second Hatton Fight would be unacceptable!!! And if that happens it wouldn't change my view of him as a fighter or if he's a coward or not... it's just plain and simple not acceptable!!!

Great Post, Objective, Historical, and a GREAT READ...!!!!

[ml2niceguy]

excellent read