Are/Were These Fights Elite?

[Scott9945]

None of them are elite.

[ferocity]

Vernon Forrest
Cory Spinks
Ricardo Mayorga
Zab Judah
Miguel Angel Gonzalez
Ike Quartey
Oba Carr
Acelino Freitas
Harry Simon
Fernando Vargas

What do you all think?

Harry Simon and Oba Carr are the only ones you could say were not elite because they didn't hold a major title but were the best of the best top contenders in there divisions.

All the other were elite at one point in time.

[Fox McCloud]

None of them are elite.

You don't think Vargas was elite back in the days when he "beat" Wright and beat Quartey?

[cotto16]

Mayorga was elite, as was forrest and spinks.

[Fox McCloud]

Harry Simon and Oba Carr are the only ones you could say were not elite because they didn't hold a major title but were the best of the best top contenders in there divisions.

All the other were elite at one point in time.

Harry Simon won the WBO Light Middleweight strap from Winky Wright if I'm not mistaken.

[ferocity]

Harry Simon won the WBO Light Middleweight strap from Winky Wright if I'm not mistaken.

I know. And the only reason the WBO is so highly regarded is because of HBO!

Why? Because there best fighter at the time was Rid**** Bowe who held the WBO! Then came there other great fighter that only fought for the WBO because other title organizations never gave him a title show when he was coming up in rank, which is why Barrera had to keep moving up in weight to get a title shot, nobody wanted to give him a title shot at the time.

The WBO is not a major World Title. Its an HBO mis-conception.

edit: the wbo isn't a major world title but i would happy to win the title, lol.

[Scott9945]

You don't think Vargas was elite back in the days when he "beat" Wright and beat Quartey?

He was for a brief period. Anytime you use words like "elite" or "great" it becomes completely subjective. But I'll concede that Vargas was at one time considered elite. By that criteria, Forrest was considered elite until his first title defense. That's why I wouldn't hurry to call Kelly Pavlik elite either.

[Fox McCloud]

I know. And the only reason the WBO is so highly regarded is because of HBO!

Why? Because there best fighter at the time was Rid**** Bowe who held the WBO! Then came there other great fighter that only fought for the WBO because other title organizations never gave him a title show when he was coming up in rank, which is why Barrera had to keep moving up in weight to get a title shot, nobody wanted to give him a title shot at the time.

The WBO is not a major World Title. Its an HBO mis-conception.

Well, now that you are disqualified from being ranked in the WBC, WBA of IBF once you hold the WBO strap, I think it is a major world title.

Calzaghe, Margarito, etc. were made because of the WBO.

I don't know if you can argue that it is not a major world title now.

But back then, it kind of was the period where it was still pretty in between. I remember HBO said that Bronco McKart was getting his first title shot against Winky Wright when Wright held the IBF belt. McKart had already held the WBO belt before that.

He was for a brief period. Anytime you use words like "elite" or "great" it becomes completely subjective. But I'll concede that Vargas was at one time considered elite. By that criteria, Forrest was considered elite until his first title defense. That's why I wouldn't hurry to call Kelly Pavlik elite either.

I agree 100% about both Forrest and Pavlik. Good post.

[TheGreatA]

Harry Simon won the WBO Light Middleweight strap from Winky Wright if I'm not mistaken.

He also won the WBO middleweight title but never got to defend it because of the two year jail sentence.

Not a very highly regarded title but I guess he can be called a two time world champion...

[ferocity]

Well, now that you are disqualified from being ranked in the WBC, WBA of IBF once you hold the WBO strap, I think it is a major world title.

Calzaghe, Margarito, etc. were made because of the WBO.

I don't know if you can argue that it is not a major world title now.

But back then, it kind of was the period where it was still pretty in between. I remember HBO said that Bronco McKart was getting his first title shot against Winky Wright when Wright held the IBF belt. McKart had already held the WBO belt before that.



I agree 100% about both Forrest and Pavlik. Good post.

Margarito nor Calzaghe "were made because of the WBO."

Calzaghe was made because even though most of us Americans didn't really know his opponets the guy keep winning and even beat some of our good contenders like Omar Sheika. But the fight that really made Calzaghe was the "LACY FIGHT." Which then you can say he won a real title IBF. Cause this fight gave Calzaghe the respect he wanted. You didn't see or hear the same respect for Calzaghe before he beat Lacy.

Margarito was made because again he kept winning and beating some good opponets and hadn't lost in years at weltweight yet, the top welterweights didn't want to fight him. What made him is himself with a little bit of hype followed by him winning streak followed by the top welterweights not wanting to fight Margarito. Again i wouldn't say it was the WBO that made him. Beating Antonio Diaz got him the win and exposer he needed to ask for people to take him serious as a Welterweight or at least a way to make some noise starting with that win.