Is Calzaghe a Top 25 Fighter in the last 30 Years?

[hishaam15]

Calzaghe is a top fighter.



Ok, name them. Bernard Hopkins, despite being 43, was rated higher on the P4P list (that you place so much emphasis on) than the best wins of any of those people.



No, Tszyu was not a particularly skillful fighter (in comparison to the rest of the list), and as for 80 year old George Foreman...anyway, irrelevant, because you said you were basing it upon what they'd achieved.

i dont place much emphasis on the p4p list, i was just saying that if tszyu could make the list he couldnt have been complete bull**** could he?


Hop wasnt rated higher than Calzaghe on the p4p list at the time, and calzaghe as expected to win that fight.

George Foreman actually eacheived quiete abit in the last 30 years. becoming HW champ at 50, pulling out when everyone thought he was mad etc..


my point is that calzaghe doesnt hit my top 25, hes a good fighter yes. but not top 25 quality.

[Clegg]

So are you excusing his rampant ignorance, trolling, lack of boxing knowledge, casual fandom and constant trolling for Calzaghe because he's a fellow fan?

How is a he "a bit strange"? Call a ****** a ******. It's simple.

Where did I excuse him at all?

I thought I'd just clearly pointed out that he doesn't really know what he's talking about and isn't qualified to discuss someone like Lennox Lewis.

I make a post that is 100% criticism, and you respond as if I'm defending the guy and am biased because he likes a fighter that I like.

[Kris Silver]

i dont place much emphasis on the p4p list, i was just saying that if tszyu could make the list he couldnt have been complete bull**** could he?


Hop wasnt rated higher than Calzaghe on the p4p list at the time, and calzaghe as expected to win that fight.

George Foreman actually eacheived quiete abit in the last 30 years. becoming HW champ at 50, pulling out when everyone thought he was mad etc..


my point is that calzaghe doesnt hit my top 25, hes a good fighter yes. but not top 25 quality.

Hishaam, this is actually quite embarassing.

-When asked why you place numerous fighters above Calzaghe in the top 25, you gave your reasoning as the p4p list.

-Then when presented with the fact Calzaghe is also as high on the p4p list, you say it's the amount of time in the p4p list.

-Then when presented with the fact that's not that valid, and there's a negligible difference in time there.

-Then say you don't put much emphasis on the p4p list.

Can you back track any further? Your litterally clutching at straws it's ludicrous.

[bsrizpac]

Where did I excuse him at all?

I thought I'd just clearly pointed out that he doesn't really know what he's talking about and isn't qualified to discuss someone like Lennox Lewis.

I make a post that is 100% criticism, and you respond as if I'm defending the guy and am biased because he likes a fighter that I like.

I was referring to the point about him "not believing everything he says". If he is simply trolling then he really knows the inside and out of how a mentally challenged person would think. Fair Point on that one.

[MELLY-MEL...]

for me no, but close. to many others imo that are a bit better for various reasons.

[Clegg]

i dont place much emphasis on the p4p list, i was just saying that if tszyu could make the list he couldnt have been complete bull**** could he?

No, he wasn't complete bull****. But neither is Calzaghe, so again, why the higher rating for Tszyu?

Hop wasnt rated higher than Calzaghe on the p4p list at the time, and calzaghe as expected to win that fight.

So? It doesn't matter if you're the favourite or not, it matters how good the opponent is. Saying that a guy has a better legacy because he won fights as an underdog, where a guy with a better record won them as a favourite...that is not the way you assess someone's achievements.

Wasn't Mayweather the favourite for every single fight he was ever in? You realise that doesn't damage his legacy at all, right? Or does it in your opinion?

George Foreman actually eacheived quiete abit in the last 30 years. becoming HW champ at 50, pulling out when everyone thought he was mad etc..

45 actually. And again, beating someone as the underdog isn't worth more in terms of legacy than beating them as the favourite.

Foreman's record is admirable for such an old guy, but people don't have him as the greatest heavyweight ever, just because he did something in his 40s that no other heavyweight could do.

In terms of his performances, his wins and his losses, his record is not as good as Calzaghe's in the past 30 years IMO. If you think it is better, please try and explain it with more than "he was an underdog".

my point is that calzaghe doesnt hit my top 25, hes a good fighter yes. but not top 25 quality.

Yes I've understood that part, I'm asking you to explain why, and I don't understand why this is so hard for you.

You want to base it on competition? Do it that way. Wanna go for belts won or defended? Go down that route. But right now you aren't able to justify your opinion at all and you don't seem to know what you're talking about.

In your next post, try and answer my question that I've been asking for several posts. Who did they beat that you rate so highly?

[hishaam15]

Hishaam, this is actually quite embarassing.

-When asked why you place numerous fighters above Calzaghe in the top 25, you gave your reasoning as the p4p list.

-Then when presented with the fact Calzaghe is also as high on the p4p list, you say it's the amount of time in the p4p list.

-Then when presented with the fact that's not that valid, and there's a negligible difference in time there.

-Then say you don't put much emphasis on the p4p list.

Can you back track any further? Your litterally clutching at straws it's ludicrous.

What? your putting words in my mouth now.

first of all, i said i based my list on ACHEIVMENTS, not P4P status,

secondly i told you the list was just my opinion, and i know there could be a couple of fighters i dont know much about on the list.

at the end f the day , what im trying to say is that calzaghe aint top 25 material, you could say some of the people i rated higher than him shouldnt be there, but thats your opinion.

[Clegg]

I was referring to the point about him "not believing everything he says". If he is simply trolling then he really knows the inside and out of how a mentally challenged person would think. Fair Point on that one.

Well I'm not sure if boxasmash and Lucky13 are Ricky or not, if so then he's probably trolling, if he isn't then he's probably just a bit mad and isn't posting anymore because they finally took him away. I still remember his "Is Winky Wright black or white?" poll or whatever it was.

I see him more as a troll trying to wind people up than as an idiot who really believes the stuff he says, but I could be wrong.

[Clegg]

What? your putting words in my mouth now.

first of all, i said i based my list on ACHEIVMENTS, not P4P status,

secondly i told you the list was just my opinion, and i know there could be a couple of fighters i dont know much about on the list.

at the end f the day , what im trying to say is that calzaghe aint top 25 material, you could say some of the people i rated higher than him shouldnt be there, but thats your opinion.

Ok, once more: yes, I understand that your opinion is that he is not top 25. What I am doing is trying to get you to explain why. Are you able to grasp this concept?

Tell me what the achievements of Tsyzu are, then we can see why they are better than Calzaghe's.

If you want, just say "it's my opinion, but don't know how to justify it" and we'll leave it at that. If not, then for God's sake explain what you considered when making your list. And don't just say "achievements". Say what the achievements actually were and what makes them better than Calzaghe's.

[hishaam15]

No, he wasn't complete bull****. But neither is Calzaghe, so again, why the higher rating for Tszyu?



So? It doesn't matter if you're the favourite or not, it matters how good the opponent is. Saying that a guy has a better legacy because he won fights as an underdog, where a guy with a better record won them as a favourite...that is not the way you assess someone's achievements.

Wasn't Mayweather the favourite for every single fight he was ever in? You realise that doesn't damage his legacy at all, right? Or does it in your opinion?



45 actually. And again, beating someone as the underdog isn't worth more in terms of legacy than beating them as the favourite.

Foreman's record is admirable for such an old guy, but people don't have him as the greatest heavyweight ever, just because he did something in his 40s that no other heavyweight could do.

In terms of his performances, his wins and his losses, his record is not as good as Calzaghe's in the past 30 years IMO. If you think it is better, please try and explain it with more than "he was an underdog".



Yes I've understood that part, I'm asking you to explain why, and I don't understand why this is so hard for you.

You want to base it on competition? Do it that way. Wanna go for belts won or defended? Go down that route. But right now you aren't able to justify your opinion at all and you don't seem to know what you're talking about.

In your next post, try and answer my question that I've been asking for several posts. Who did they beat that you rate so highly?

i didnt that if you win as the underdog its a good acheivment. calzaghe pulled out as the underdog against who Lacy? he could have taken much bigger challenges before that, one of the reasons he doesnt get an ATG standing. beating someone when everyone is expecting you to lose is a way you can assess someones acheivements, if Calzaghe was expected to beat Lacy would he get the amount of flack he does for that win now?


IMO what Foreman acheived in the last 30 years is far greater than what Calzaghe has acheived.



you want me to explain why calzaghe doest receive an ATG 25 standing? i thought this would be obvious, but here goes:

- Competition wasnt good
- Could have taken better challenges
- arguably lost to a 43 year old Hop and Reid
- Defended WBO belt entirely in europe for 8 years before unifying.
- Only stuck at SMW whole career (except Hop)
- Has very obvious Flaws that a young, fresh and talented fighter could easily expose