what if: James Toney vs. Joe Calzaghe @ 168 (Prime for prime)

[duffgun]

I think it dependes on what Toney shows up at his best he could beat Joe but i would give Calzaghe a chance.

[abadger]

This quote from you is just laughable. Especially since Calzaghe's resume is no where near as good as Toney's and even when Toney was at super middleweight, his record was still better than Calzaghe's. Therefore, how can judge Toney for losing when his resume is by far superior? Does Calzaghe have great names like a peak unbeaten Michael Nunn on his record? Mike Maccalum ect? Did Calzaghe go up in weight and beat the best cruiser weight champion at that time that was unbeaten and feared by many? Jirov was a southpaw, brutal body punches, fast hands/combinations and he brought educated pressure so like i have said, Joe wouldn't bring anything that Toney hasn't seen before. Toney would have a field day with timing those wide looping shots from Calzaghe and taking advantage of his horrible balance after he trows.

[vBTube]66qLo0fVyxg[/vBTube]

You just said a simple statement of fact was laughable. Good one. There is no point discussing Calzaghe's resume it has been done to death. I think it is OK, obviously you do not. I apologise for the fact that one of the world's best boxers is not one of your favourites, but I'm afraid that's just the way it is.
________
Streaming ****

[mitch12]

One question.

If calzaghe could hardly land on a 43 year old hopkins.

How on earth would he land on Prime James Toney?

PS. I hope no one tries to tell me Calzaghe had more power than Toney at 168 pounds.

wtf are you trying to compare calzaghe today to his prime lmao for starters his hands werent ****ed up in his prime and he had power too .

[mitch12]

why are people comparing calzaghes prime to the fight against hopkins he was poor against hopkins i admit nothing like in his prime.

[abadger]

Yes, it was the first fight where Calzaghe faced a great fighter that was a throw back to the greats and used old moves and tactics. Am i suppose to take what he did against the 2 one dimensional fighters that are the best prime fighters on his resume, Lacy and Kessler? Those fights wouldn't tell me anything because those guys are one way and don't have a lot in their repertoire. Toney has all of those Hopkins like attributes and some may say that he has more, he is certainly more experienced than Hopkins, fought better line of fighters than Bernard and accomplished more in the sport.
Calzaghe has always had bad balance, he has always threw short flurrying pitter pat shots and thats the wrong things to do when you are facing someone that is as technically correct as peak Toney. A perfect example is in that video of him fighting Jirov, he was about to set up a stoppage and he was on the ropes when he did it. The ropes is where Calzaghe starts to get his little volume punches at and the same place that he was being countered by Hopkins at.Toney counters extremely well off of the ropes and Calzaghe is completely vulnerable to right hand counters. Hopkins exposed this and when you think about it, he was the only effective elusive counter puncher than Calzaghe has faced.


You can't overestimate a legend and thats what Toney is. In a few years when he is good and retired, then he will finally get his respect. He is the only man to go up from middleweight and capture a Major belt in every division on his way up. Also, Joe was an effective puncher before Hopkins because he never fought a fighter that had the ability to capitalize on his mistakes the way Bernard did. He will not be able to flurry and land volume punches on Toney because he would be countered with harder and more effective punches. Joe would be the aggressor and would bring the fight to Toney, the way he did Hopkins because James is a natural counter puncher. Calzaghe stated in many interviews that he likes when his opponents come foward. Which would mean that he would be vulnerable to counters because he is wide open when he is flurrying off of the ropes and thats the spot where Toney usually picks his spots.

Also, point to me a middleweight in history that Toney wouldn't give fit to. He would be a problem to any fighter in history in my opinion.

OK. Every fighter the long reigning, record breaking champion Joe Calzaghe has faced in his career was second-rate at best. None of his wins count for anything and had the fact that he is the undefeated Ring SMW and LHW champion counts for nothing.

It is impossible to overestimate James Toney because he is a "legend" and the losses on his record can all be excused. James Toney is an unbeatable monster and is beyond any kind of criticism.

Cool.
________
****stars vixen

[mitch12]

Good question,

Nunn couldnt land on Toney, the judging of that fight was disgusting, toney hurt him several times and constenly evaded nunns flicker jab, eventually the body shots and vicous right hands caught up with nunn, and toney brutally knocked him out.

Ps, toney was about 22 at the time i think, and nunn was considered by some the best fighter on the planet.

Calzaghe aint got a jab that can trouble toney, and all that jumping in unprotected with wide angle punches.....

Toney would see that all day long, see how hopkins had calzaghe down, toney had savage power at this weight. Calzaghe would be getting hit everywhere, inside with right hooks to the body, right hand counters the lot.

Inside or outside, toney all day.

again your comparing calzaghe from the hopkins fight hes way past his prime and has pucked up hands go watch a prime calzaghe when he was younger.

[slicksouthpaw16]

You just said a simple statement of fact was laughable. Good one. There is no point discussing Calzaghe's resume it has been done to death. I think it is OK, obviously you do not. I apologise for the fact that one of the world's best boxers is not one of your favourites, but I'm afraid that's just the way it is.

The point is that there is no comparison when it comes to the opposition they fought because Toney clearly fought the better line of fighter. That means that you can't judge them in that way because it can be misleading. Thats like saying that Marciano is better than Ali because he retired unbeaten, despite Ali fighting the much bigger and better champions in a more talented filled division. Its the same situation with Calzaghe and Toney. Toney has fought and beaten better fighters than Calzaghe and was not protected, so how is Calzaghe better by saying that he is unbeaten than Toney when he hasn't fought the good top guys that he fought? Kessler started his pro career a few years after Calzaghe did, yet he even managed to have more top 10 wins. Hope you understand.

Also, i like Toney AND Calzaghe and he is one of my favorite fighters, but i don't let that get in the way of a debate. Being fans does not interfere with my views, i am not biased.

[mitch12]

Toney by easy decision.

Well in fact I think he'd probably smack Calzaghe around and stun him a few times..........but he'd make him look flat out horrible.

That whole straight punches in bunches thing looks hilarious when it's used against a slickster who relies on punching angles.

you must be the on about out of prime calzaghe

[slicksouthpaw16]

You just said a simple statement of fact was laughable. Good one. There is no point discussing Calzaghe's resume it has been done to death. I think it is OK, obviously you do not. I apologise for the fact that one of the world's best boxers is not one of your favourites, but I'm afraid that's just the way it is.

OK. Every fighter the long reigning, record breaking champion Joe Calzaghe has faced in his career was second-rate at best. None of his wins count for anything and had the fact that he is the undefeated Ring SMW and LHW champion counts for nothing.

It is impossible to overestimate James Toney because he is a "legend" and the losses on his record can all be excused. James Toney is an unbeatable monster and is beyond any kind of criticism.

Cool.

I didn't say that. I said that i personally didn't overestimate him. How can you be overrated when you haven't ducked any fighter ever and captured a major belt in every weight class from middleweight up? Even heavyweight.

[abadger]

you must be the on about out of prime calzaghe

That's a good point. It seems that the only Calzaghe that exists is the slightly subdued one we saw v Hopkins.
________
Creamy ******