Have Calzaghe fans lost their minds?

Collapse
Collapse
  • Time
  • Show
Clear All
new posts
  • -Swizzy-
    The Wolf
    Super Champion - 5,000-10,000 posts
    • Dec 2007
    • 8821
    • 431
    • 330
    • 661,075

    #1

    Have Calzaghe fans lost their minds?

    By Geoffrey Ciani

    Generally speaking, there tends to be some fairly good balance when it comes to making assessments with boxing fans, which is why I am utterly baffled by the foolishness on display pertaining to the upcoming mega bout between Bernard Hopkins and Joe Calzaghe. The way these Calzaghe fans talk (and there are scores of them), you would think Calzaghe was slated to fight Academy Award winning actor, Anthony Hopkins, instead of Bernard. Then again, the out-of-control mass delusion which has overtaken a large percentage of the Calzaghe faithful might well mean giving the actor best known for his portrayal of Hannibal Lecter a better chance against Calzaghe than Bernard.

    That so many fans believe Calzaghe will beat Hopkins is one thing; that so many believe he will beat him easily is quite another. This is simply inexplicable.

    One of the first methods of madness is to discredit Hopkins’s resume. According to the Calzaghe faithful, Hopkins has never beaten anyone of note. Sure, he has some names on his resume, but they mostly consist of blown-up welterweights who had no business fighting Hopkins.

    Take, for example, his bout against Felix Trinidad. According to the Calzaghe faithful, Trinidad is a bum who had no business fighting above 147. It seems that Calzaghe fans conveniently forget the fact that Trinidad was not only successful during his stay in the 154 pound division, but that he was also a four to one favorite against Hopkins as the reigning WBA champion, having just battered William Joppy in the opening-round of Don King’s middleweight tournament. It should also be noted that Trinidad was universally recognized amongst the pound-for-pound best in the sport when Hopkins thoroughly outclassed him.

    More recent examples of this campaign designed to discredit Hopkins would be his wins against Antonio Tarver and Winky Wright. Against Tarver, Hopkins had jumped two weight classes at the age of 41 to take on the top dog in the light-heavyweight division. Tarver was a three-to-one favorite and widely recognized as a top pound-for-pound talent in the sport, and yet he was systematically dominated by Hopkins. In his very next bout, he took on yet another pound-for-pound elite in Ronald “Winky” Wright. Once again, Hopkins was the underdog, and once again, Hopkins would win a lopsided decision.

    Yet, the Calzaghe faithful gives him absolutely no credit for these two sensational victories. To them Tarver was always ‘overrated’, and worse yet, he was ‘weight drained’ from his role in Sly Stallone’s Rocky Balboa. As for Winky, he was just another blown-up welterweight who had never accomplished anything north of 154. Winky was ‘too pudgy’ at that weight, and even still, they claim he made Hopkins ‘look bad’. In fact, some even have the audacity to claim Winky deserved victory in a contest he clearly lost. Furthermore, they seem to forget that Hopkins himself had just recently moved north of the middleweight division, but why ruin a good disinformation campaign by allowing the facts to get in the way?

    Another method of madness being utilized by the delusional Calzaghe faithful is overstating his resume. After chatting with a Calzaghe fan, one might be left with the impression that Jeff Lacy and Mikkel Kessler were all-time greats on par with Sugar Ray Robinson and Henry Armstrong! The way Calzaghe fans speak of his conquered foes, you would think he had cleaned out every worthy contender south of cruiserweight over the past fifteen years. In reality, Calzaghe’s resume is a rather underwhelming ledger best defined by mediocrity, barring a few exceptions like Kessler and Chris Eubank, but even here, we are hardly discussing anyone even approaching an elite level.

    One of the final methods of madness being used is the ‘work rate’ argument. This one basically states that “Calzaghe throws too many punches, ergo, he will overwhelm Hopkins, much like Jermain Taylor did”. This argument ignores the fact that styles make fights and that Calzaghe and Taylor fight nothing alike. It also undermines the fact that Hopkins is a defensive tactician and outstanding counter-puncher, when it just so happens, these are the exact qualities that help neutralize high punch volume as recently evidenced when the unheralded Carlos Quintana bested another fighter known for work rate, Paul Williams.

    Indeed, speaking with Calzaghe fans leaves one with the impression that he is being pitted against a stationary target who is incapable of throwing punches, rather than a future Hall-of-Famer with impeccable skills and pedigree. The most hysterical thing in all of this is that Calzaghe himself is surely aware of the daunting task at hand. No doubt he is smart enough to realize what he is up against, and no doubt he understands that beating Hopkins is a tall order. Unfortunately, Calzaghe fans seem blinded by this reality, and the ridiculous arguments they put forth certainly seem indicative of overcompensation.

    In the end, I wonder who it is Calzaghe fans are trying to convince: The rest of the boxing community or themselves?
    Last edited by -Swizzy-; 04-02-2008, 03:15 PM.
  • Dynamite Kid
    Slicker than your average
    Franchise Champion - 20,000+ posts
    • Feb 2007
    • 20701
    • 627
    • 209
    • 38,291

    #2
    Originally posted by kswizzy99
    By Geoffrey Ciani

    Generally speaking, there tends to be some fairly good balance when it comes to making assessments, which is why I am utterly baffled by the foolishness on display pertaining to the upcoming mega bout between Bernard Hopkins and Joe Calzaghe. The way these Calzaghe fans talk (and there are scores of them), you would think Calzaghe was slated to fight Academy Award winning actor, Anthony Hopkins, instead of Bernard. Then again, the out-of-control mass delusion which has overtaken a large percentage of the Calzaghe faithful might well mean giving the actor best known for his portrayal of Hannibal Lecter a better chance against Calzaghe than Bernard.

    That so many fans believe Calzaghe will beat Hopkins is one thing; that so many believe he will beat him easily is quite another. This is simply inexplicable.

    One of the first methods of madness is to discredit Hopkins’s resume. According to the Calzaghe faithful, Hopkins has never beaten anyone of note. Sure, he has some names on his resume, but they mostly consist of blown-up welterweights who had no business fighting Hopkins.

    Take, for example, his bout against Felix Trinidad. According to the Calzaghe faithful, Trinidad is a bum who had no business fighting above 147. It seems that Calzaghe fans conveniently forget the fact that Trinidad was not only successful during his stay in the 154 pound division, but that he was also a four to one favorite against Hopkins as the reigning WBA champion, having just battered William Joppy in the opening-round of Don King’s middleweight tournament. It should also be noted that Trinidad was universally recognized amongst the pound-for-pound best in the sport when Hopkins thoroughly outclassed him.

    More recent examples of this campaign designed to discredit Hopkins would be his wins against Antonio Tarver and Winky Wright. Against Tarver, Hopkins had jumped two weight classes at the age of 41 to take on the top dog in the light-heavyweight division. Tarver was a three-to-one favorite and widely recognized as a top pound-for-pound talent in the sport, and yet he was systematically dominated by Hopkins. In his very next bout, he took on yet another pound-for-pound elite in Ronald “Winky” Wright. Once again, Hopkins was the underdog, and once again, Hopkins would win a lopsided decision.

    Yet, the Calzaghe faithful gives him absolutely no credit for these two sensational victories. To them Tarver was always ‘overrated’, and worse yet, he was ‘weight drained’ from his role in Sly Stallone’s Rocky Balboa. As for Winky, he was just another blown-up welterweight who had never accomplished anything north of 154. Winky was ‘too pudgy’ at that weight, and even still, they claim he made Hopkins ‘look bad’. In fact, some even have the audacity to claim Winky deserved victory in a contest he clearly lost. Furthermore, they seem to forget that Hopkins himself had just recently moved north of the middleweight division, but why ruin a good disinformation campaign by allowing the facts to get in the way?

    Another method of madness being utilized by the delusional Calzaghe faithful is overstating his resume. After chatting with a Calzaghe fan, one might be left with the impression that Jeff Lacy and Mikkel Kessler were all-time greats on par with Sugar Ray Robinson and Henry Armstrong! The way Calzaghe fans speak of his conquered foes, you would think he had cleaned out every worthy contender south of cruiserweight over the past fifteen years. In reality, Calzaghe’s resume is a rather underwhelming ledger best defined by mediocrity, barring a few exceptions like Kessler and Chris Eubank, but even here, we are hardly discussing anyone even approaching an elite level.

    One of the final methods of madness being used is the ‘work rate’ argument. This one basically states that “Calzaghe throws too many punches, ergo, he will overwhelm Hopkins, much like Jermain Taylor did”. This argument ignores the fact that styles make fights and that Calzaghe and Taylor fight nothing alike. It also undermines the fact that Hopkins is a defensive tactician and outstanding counter-puncher, when it just so happens, these are the exact qualities that help neutralize high punch volume as recently evidenced when the unheralded Carlos Quintana bested another fighter known for work rate, Paul Williams.

    Indeed, speaking with Calzaghe fans leaves one with the impression that he is being pitted against a stationary target who is incapable of throwing punches, rather than a future Hall-of-Famer with impeccable skills and pedigree. The most hysterical thing in all of this is that Calzaghe himself is surely aware of the daunting task at hand. No doubt he is smart enough to realize what he is up against, and no doubt he understands that beating Hopkins is a tall order. Unfortunately, Calzaghe fans seem blinded by this reality, and the ridiculous arguments they put forth certainly seem indicative of overcompensation.

    In the end, I wonder who it is Calzaghe fans are trying to convince: The rest of the boxing community or themselves?

    Calzaghe fans are going over the top IMO ,giving Hopkins no chance and dismissing his resume ive been saying for weeks that they are overlooking Hopkins , i think Zag will win but it wont be easy & im expecting a good showing from Hopkins

    Comment

    • RichCCFC
      46-0
      Unified Champion - 10,00-20,000 posts
      • Dec 2007
      • 12846
      • 440
      • 132
      • 22,116

      #3
      Blah Blah Blah..

      I didn't read it, did he say Hopkins is going to KO Calzaghe after that long ass boring post? He probably did didn't he?

      Comment

      • KingTito
        Undisputed Champion
        Super Champion - 5,000-10,000 posts
        • Mar 2006
        • 9391
        • 234
        • 350
        • 22,960

        #4
        i agree with the fact that saying calzaghe will dominate hopkins is a bit much.. i think calzaghe will win, but i don't think it'll be easy

        Comment

        • Orion
          hipp
          Platinum Champion - 1,000-5,000 posts
          • Mar 2008
          • 1787
          • 113
          • 101
          • 8,405

          #5
          This was a well worth read.

          Comment

          • abadger
            Real Talk
            Super Champion - 5,000-10,000 posts
            • Nov 2007
            • 6259
            • 242
            • 139
            • 13,256

            #6
            [QUOTE=kswizzy99;3308636]By Geoffrey Ciani

            Generally speaking, there tends to be some fairly good balance when it comes to making assessments, which is why I am utterly baffled by the foolishness on display pertaining to the upcoming mega bout between Bernard Hopkins and Joe Calzaghe. The way these Calzaghe fans talk (and there are scores of them), you would think Calzaghe was slated to fight Academy Award winning actor, Anthony Hopkins, instead of Bernard. Then again, the out-of-control mass delusion which has overtaken a large percentage of the Calzaghe faithful might well mean giving the actor best known for his portrayal of Hannibal Lecter a better chance against Calzaghe than Bernard.

            ......CUT.......
            QUOTE]

            That is an excellent post. As one of the many Calzaghe fans, I will try and answer you in an equally thoughtful manner.

            I think the main problem here is one of hyperbole, and also the fact that we all tend to admire the talents of boxers we grew up watching, who in may cases are part of the reason we love boxing in the first place. Boxing fans tend, like any sports supporters to both wildly hail the skills of their favourite fighters, and also to defend them to the hilt. I think that is what is happening here in the cases of both Calzaghe and Hopkins.

            First, lets take a look at the records of the respective fighters. We actually have a unique situation. In both cases, we have fighters with extraordinary, record breaking reigns at their respective divisions, who held their titles for a long time widely unheralded, only going on to be hailed as 'greats' following defining fights towards the end of their careers. For those who followed them throughout, these fighters are always going to be the object of intense loyalty.

            Another similarity between Hopkins and Calzaghe is the nature of the attacks made against them. Since both reigned for so long, the only real criticism available is to attack their records, so this is what people do. There isn't really any other choice. IMO, most of the points made about Hopkins and Calzaghe's respective records are actually fairly reasonable. There is a case to be made that Calzaghe's better opponents like Eubank, Reid, Lacy(?), and Kessler, were in fact not quite the fighters they appear to be. Likewise there is a case to be made that some of Bernard's opponents, like Winky, De La Hoya etc were fighting way above weight and were not at their best. Bernard has also lost twice to Jermain Taylor, and that has to be a big question mark against him, even if some dispute those results.

            The thing about the case against each fighter is, that even though both may be perfectly reasonable, it will never be seen that way by the fans. No-one who followed Calzaghe from the beginning, who watched with white knuckles his tremendous fight with Reid, who saw him batter the great Eubank, who saw him beat Evans Ashira with one hand, who saw his triumphant, dominant victories against Kessler and Lacy, both of whom had been picked to beat him, is ever going to do anything than defend him to the hilt. To the at best neutral Hopkins fan, probably from the US, all these fights that mean so much to the Calzaghe fan add up to much less. "Yeah," they say, "the guy looks good, but who were all those guys?" Then they turn on Friday Night Fights or HBO and watch some of the countless great US boxers whose career they have been following.

            The same is true of Bernard Hopkins supporters. I'm sure his fights with Tarver, Winky, Trinidad, were quite literally the most exciting nights in some of his fans lives (in terms of boxing). Could this long reigning, tough as nails competitor really beat these living legends? Would he join them in the HOF? Meanwhile the Calzaghe fan says "Tarver? You mean the guy from Rocky? De La Hoya? I thought he was the same size as Prince Naseem." The Hopkins fan will never believe he'll lose to some protected Euro Southpaw, but th calzaghe fan doesn't believe that Southpaw can lose.


            The truth? Both sets of fans are wrong, and both sets of fans are right. This is what we watch boxing for. To be inspired. To lose our minds. To believe in our man no matter what the odds. And you know what, its what boxing is for too. If it couldn't inspire bias, loyalty, even love, then it would just be men hitting each other for money. Instead its a brutal, bloody, brilliant sport like no other, and for that we should all be glad, no matter which side of the fence we're on.
            ________
            Cheap 1 4 in steel shot
            Last edited by abadger; 03-20-2011, 11:03 PM.

            Comment

            • Vladimir303
              303
              Super Champion - 5,000-10,000 posts
              • May 2007
              • 6067
              • 398
              • 276
              • 12,727

              #7
              Originally posted by kswizzy99
              By Geoffrey Ciani

              Generally speaking, there tends to be some fairly good balance when it comes to making assessments, which is why I am utterly baffled by the foolishness on display pertaining to the upcoming mega bout between Bernard Hopkins and Joe Calzaghe. The way these Calzaghe fans talk (and there are scores of them), you would think Calzaghe was slated to fight Academy Award winning actor, Anthony Hopkins, instead of Bernard. Then again, the out-of-control mass delusion which has overtaken a large percentage of the Calzaghe faithful might well mean giving the actor best known for his portrayal of Hannibal Lecter a better chance against Calzaghe than Bernard.

              That so many fans believe Calzaghe will beat Hopkins is one thing; that so many believe he will beat him easily is quite another. This is simply inexplicable.

              One of the first methods of madness is to discredit Hopkins’s resume. According to the Calzaghe faithful, Hopkins has never beaten anyone of note. Sure, he has some names on his resume, but they mostly consist of blown-up welterweights who had no business fighting Hopkins.

              Take, for example, his bout against Felix Trinidad. According to the Calzaghe faithful, Trinidad is a bum who had no business fighting above 147. It seems that Calzaghe fans conveniently forget the fact that Trinidad was not only successful during his stay in the 154 pound division, but that he was also a four to one favorite against Hopkins as the reigning WBA champion, having just battered William Joppy in the opening-round of Don King’s middleweight tournament. It should also be noted that Trinidad was universally recognized amongst the pound-for-pound best in the sport when Hopkins thoroughly outclassed him.

              More recent examples of this campaign designed to discredit Hopkins would be his wins against Antonio Tarver and Winky Wright. Against Tarver, Hopkins had jumped two weight classes at the age of 41 to take on the top dog in the light-heavyweight division. Tarver was a three-to-one favorite and widely recognized as a top pound-for-pound talent in the sport, and yet he was systematically dominated by Hopkins. In his very next bout, he took on yet another pound-for-pound elite in Ronald “Winky” Wright. Once again, Hopkins was the underdog, and once again, Hopkins would win a lopsided decision.

              Yet, the Calzaghe faithful gives him absolutely no credit for these two sensational victories. To them Tarver was always ‘overrated’, and worse yet, he was ‘weight drained’ from his role in Sly Stallone’s Rocky Balboa. As for Winky, he was just another blown-up welterweight who had never accomplished anything north of 154. Winky was ‘too pudgy’ at that weight, and even still, they claim he made Hopkins ‘look bad’. In fact, some even have the audacity to claim Winky deserved victory in a contest he clearly lost. Furthermore, they seem to forget that Hopkins himself had just recently moved north of the middleweight division, but why ruin a good disinformation campaign by allowing the facts to get in the way?

              Another method of madness being utilized by the delusional Calzaghe faithful is overstating his resume. After chatting with a Calzaghe fan, one might be left with the impression that Jeff Lacy and Mikkel Kessler were all-time greats on par with Sugar Ray Robinson and Henry Armstrong! The way Calzaghe fans speak of his conquered foes, you would think he had cleaned out every worthy contender south of cruiserweight over the past fifteen years. In reality, Calzaghe’s resume is a rather underwhelming ledger best defined by mediocrity, barring a few exceptions like Kessler and Chris Eubank, but even here, we are hardly discussing anyone even approaching an elite level.

              One of the final methods of madness being used is the ‘work rate’ argument. This one basically states that “Calzaghe throws too many punches, ergo, he will overwhelm Hopkins, much like Jermain Taylor did”. This argument ignores the fact that styles make fights and that Calzaghe and Taylor fight nothing alike. It also undermines the fact that Hopkins is a defensive tactician and outstanding counter-puncher, when it just so happens, these are the exact qualities that help neutralize high punch volume as recently evidenced when the unheralded Carlos Quintana bested another fighter known for work rate, Paul Williams.

              Indeed, speaking with Calzaghe fans leaves one with the impression that he is being pitted against a stationary target who is incapable of throwing punches, rather than a future Hall-of-Famer with impeccable skills and pedigree. The most hysterical thing in all of this is that Calzaghe himself is surely aware of the daunting task at hand. No doubt he is smart enough to realize what he is up against, and no doubt he understands that beating Hopkins is a tall order. Unfortunately, Calzaghe fans seem blinded by this reality, and the ridiculous arguments they put forth certainly seem indicative of overcompensation.

              In the end, I wonder who it is Calzaghe fans are trying to convince: The rest of the boxing community or themselves?
              Ouch.......great ****ing article.

              Guy nailed it right down to the end.

              Comment

              • majestiC
                Banned
                Platinum Champion - 1,000-5,000 posts
                • May 2005
                • 2810
                • 126
                • 51
                • 3,400

                #8
                lol in two weeks this ***** ass mother ****er gonna look like a baboon!

                Comment

                • Jolly Roger
                  Contender
                  Silver Champion - 100-500 posts
                  • Nov 2007
                  • 486
                  • 43
                  • 3
                  • 13,311

                  #9
                  This works both ways, i've seen some claiming that Hopkins will beat Calzaghe easily and some even saying he will knock him out. Now this is equally ridiculous. Some fans are passionate and make ridiculous statements without thinking it through, i've seen it from both Calzaghe AND Hopkins fans.

                  I stopped reading after the first paragraph, i could tell it was going to be an impartial piece of tosh.

                  Comment

                  • majestiC
                    Banned
                    Platinum Champion - 1,000-5,000 posts
                    • May 2005
                    • 2810
                    • 126
                    • 51
                    • 3,400

                    #10
                    if Calzaghe loses ill never post again thats how confident i am!

                    Comment

                    Working...
                    TOP