Is Cotto Mayweather’s “Manos De Piedra?”

[BennyST]

when i first read the article i didint like the tone, but i wasnt in the right frame of mind last night, after reading it again this morning, there isnt much wrong with it at all. but i still have the same problem that basically floyd has to lose to become something, essentially until he loses, he wont be much of anything. and no im not just a fan of one fighter, i post in plenty of other threads involving other fights/fighters, look at my post history.

I don't think it's so much that he has to lose and until then we will not see him as something great. It's more that in the past every truly great fighter has had another truly great fighter to fight and overcome. Hence, the comparison between Leonard/Duran. They had a vicious rivalry in which it was thought the younger, prime Leonard would beat the supposedly nearing his end and moving up in weight Duran. Now, while the circumstances are quite different and neither fighter is as good as the first two it still makes sense.

Mayweather will not be considered truly great until he faces someone that is a genuine threat to his title/record. Unfortunately most of the guys out there are just not that special. Cotto is good, but he is still just the best of a good, but not great, bunch. I think Mayweather came at a time in which his real greatness won't be tested. Even if it would be he probably won't fight those who would test him.

Someone like Cotto though still doesn't have the tools to beat Mayweather. These constant comparisons to Duran are not going to work because neither fighter is as close to Duran in terms of skill, heart, aggression and smarts. Cotto is certainly closer to it than Hatton ever was but he is still a reasonably typical, but good, come forward fighter. Like Castillo was in his prime days. Still largely incomparable to Duran though. But thats not really what the comparison is about. It's about someone who can test Mayweather and make him fight back from serious adversity or from a loss. Then we will know whether he is actually a great fighter...I still don't believe he will be tested by anyone in this particular group of fighters though. Although, I guess if anyone is going to do it, it will be Cotto.

There is one thing that would benefit a great smart infighter against Mayweather which would be much harder against a pure fast moving boxer and that is that Mayweather stands still for large amounts of the time and fights off of the ropes. So far he has fought guys that he could beat inside at their own game eg. Hatton etc. He hasn't come up against someone that is a very good, smart infighter and would use that fact to his advantage...maybe the best being Castillo. Does Cotto have more skill than Castillo did in his prime? I don't know yet.

[El Jesus]

I don't think it's so much that he has to lose and until then we will not see him as something great. It's more that in the past every truly great fighter has had another truly great fighter to fight and overcome. Hence, the comparison between Leonard/Duran. They had a vicious rivalry in which it was thought the younger, prime Leonard would beat the supposedly nearing his end and moving up in weight Duran. Now, while the circumstances are quite different and neither fighter is as good as the first two it still makes sense.

Mayweather will not be considered truly great until he faces someone that is a genuine threat to his title/record. Unfortunately most of the guys out there are just not that special. Cotto is good, but he is still just the best of a good, but not great, bunch. I think Mayweather came at a time in which his real greatness won't be tested. Even if it would be he probably won't fight those who would test him.

Someone like Cotto though still doesn't have the tools to beat Mayweather. These constant comparisons to Duran are not going to work because neither fighter is as close to Duran in terms of skill, heart, aggression and smarts. Cotto is certainly closer to it than Hatton ever was but he is still a reasonably typical, but good, come forward fighter. Like Castillo was in his prime days. Still largely incomparable to Duran though. But thats not really what the comparison is about. It's about someone who can test Mayweather and make him fight back from serious adversity or from a loss. Then we will know whether he is actually a great fighter...I still don't believe he will be tested by anyone in this particular group of fighters though. Although, I guess if anyone is going to do it, it will be Cotto.

There is one thing that would benefit a great smart infighter against Mayweather which would be much harder against a pure fast moving boxer and that is that Mayweather stands still for large amounts of the time and fights off of the ropes. So far he has fought guys that he could beat inside at their own game eg. Hatton etc. He hasn't come up against someone that is a very good, smart infighter and would use that fact to his advantage...maybe the best being Castillo. Does Cotto have more skill than Castillo did in his prime? I don't know yet.

you are right.

[BennyST]

you are right.

lol yes!







10101010

[wmute]

I don't think it's so much that he has to lose and until then we will not see him as something great. It's more that in the past every truly great fighter has had another truly great fighter to fight and overcome. Hence, the comparison between Leonard/Duran. They had a vicious rivalry in which it was thought the younger, prime Leonard would beat the supposedly nearing his end and moving up in weight Duran. Now, while the circumstances are quite different and neither fighter is as good as the first two it still makes sense.

Mayweather will not be considered truly great until he faces someone that is a genuine threat to his title/record. Unfortunately most of the guys out there are just not that special. Cotto is good, but he is still just the best of a good, but not great, bunch. I think Mayweather came at a time in which his real greatness won't be tested. Even if it would be he probably won't fight those who would test him.

Someone like Cotto though still doesn't have the tools to beat Mayweather. These constant comparisons to Duran are not going to work because neither fighter is as close to Duran in terms of skill, heart, aggression and smarts. Cotto is certainly closer to it than Hatton ever was but he is still a reasonably typical, but good, come forward fighter. Like Castillo was in his prime days. Still largely incomparable to Duran though. But thats not really what the comparison is about. It's about someone who can test Mayweather and make him fight back from serious adversity or from a loss. Then we will know whether he is actually a great fighter...I still don't believe he will be tested by anyone in this particular group of fighters though. Although, I guess if anyone is going to do it, it will be Cotto.

There is one thing that would benefit a great smart infighter against Mayweather which would be much harder against a pure fast moving boxer and that is that Mayweather stands still for large amounts of the time and fights off of the ropes. So far he has fought guys that he could beat inside at their own game eg. Hatton etc. He hasn't come up against someone that is a very good, smart infighter and would use that fact to his advantage...maybe the best being Castillo. Does Cotto have more skill than Castillo did in his prime? I don't know yet.

I think Cotto is the better all round boxer than Castillo, but on the inside I would pick Castillo to have a better offense. In his prime he was a very smooth and natural infighter, one of the best after Chavez retired (and he had that incredible chin to go with it). It's not clear to me that inside is the key to me. As spectacular as Mayweather is shooting and midrange, I guess imposing your movement on him at that stage is very important, and Cotto can do very well there. Maybe even better than Castillo.

The thing is Hatton had always been excellent at clinching, holding, wrestling for position (dirty, boring whatever, but still effective) and letting go off angled power shots, and look what happened when they fought. At that time I personally started believing Mayweather when he talks about his "bag of tricks" and I am now convinced it is indeed pretty deep.

[BennyST]

I think Cotto is the better all round boxer than Castillo, but on the inside I would pick Castillo to have a better offense. In his prime he was a very smooth and natural infighter, one of the best after Chavez retired (and he had that incredible chin to go with it). It's not clear to me that inside is the key to me. As spectacular as Mayweather is shooting and midrange, I guess imposing your movement on him at that stage is very important, and Cotto can do very well there. Maybe even better than Castillo.

The thing is Hatton had always been excellent at clinching, holding, wrestling for position (dirty, boring whatever, but still effective) and letting go off angled power shots, and look what happened when they fought. At that time I personally started believing Mayweather when he talks about his "bag of tricks" and I am now convinced it is indeed pretty deep.

Absolutely. Mayweather is a great counter puncher. Thats his main game. He also, like Toney and other inside defensive greats, can beat a lot of inside fighters at their own game because of that defense and counter punching ability. While Hatton was alright he was never someone you considered you would be talking about in ten years. He's just a good 'now' champion.

We judge Cotto's boxing skill basically from his fight with Mosley. Before that he hadn't really showed much in the way of great boxing skills. While that was a good display against Mosley, it wasn't exactly a masterful boxing clinic. Mosley didn't look to good in that fight either. If it comes down to a mid-range fight then Mayweather wins it. He is too good of a counter puncher to be beaten by Cotto from mid-range. Cotto would have to beat him inside while keeping Mayweather from dominating on the outside which is where he could use those boxing skills...just to keep from being beaten, not actually trying to beat him. That would have to be done on the inside.

The problem I see is that none of these guys Mayweather is facing have good enough defense on the inside. That is their big let-down. That is where he can beat them. He keeps them busy trying to hit him all the while countering with short, sharp shots. Speaking of the whole Duran comparison, that is why he was so highly regarded. On the inside he had as good a defense as anyone has ever had...but he fought on the inside, not the outside. He was able to use his aggression but in a brilliant way without getting hit like most guys do that fight like that. He would make other fighters miss and then counter on the inside instead of the other way around.

Cotto would have to bring some of that into his game more to be successful against Mayweather. It's possible.

[Rompeboca]

Cotto is younger than Mayweather, has more power, and on the Mosley fight, Cotto show that he has great boxing skills as well. If you look at those opponents that have fought with both Floyd and Cotto you would see that Cotto finish ALL of them by stoppage while they ALL when the whole 12 rounds with Floyd. Cotto will defeat Mayweather by KO.

Those are the reason why Floyd would never take that fight. Every time he’s ask when he’s going to fight Cotto he says he’s retiring and then he come back to fight these other fights (the one’s he knows he could win). Why he rather take a safer fight against already beaten DLH? Becuse he would get more money that if he fought Cotto. Isn’t Floyd ****** rich already? So this is just another excuse not to fight Cotto!

Floyd, his team and his fans need to stop making excuses and make this fight happen so we can see who is better!!!!!!!

[Hitman88]

Comparisons....

This article is somewhat misguided in its attempts to place Cotto as the leading foil to mayweather's reign in comparison to leonard's bouts w/ duran. From the outset, duran was no match for sugar ray from a clinical standpoint which he more than proved during their rematch. To leonard'd undoing in the 1st bout, duran was able to take him out of his gameplan w/ a bevy of insults (some even directed at his fam) that led him to want to brawl instead of box/punch. ****ing was duran's specialty. We all know that NO fighter (currently active today) is going to make floyd jr fight in a style that he's not accustomed regardless to what **** is poppin' during the pre-fight promotions. Hell, he's talks -ish w/ the best of them so that's really irrelevant in the end. Not to mention, Cotto doesnt engage in psychological warfare anyway. He may be the most deserving welter at present time, but I dont see him having the skills necessary to actually threaten mayweather's 'zero'. Yes, he looked good against zab (which isnt difficult) considering the fact he was coming off a yr layoff w/ no real tune-up and he's prone to lose focus during the championship rds. He also won a close decision against mosely which he demonstrated more than just a pressure attack to the body then head. However, mosely didnt look his sharpest and there's no way cotto is going to outbox and beat floyd to the punch the way did at certain intervals against shane. In my opinion. the fighter to beat floyd (if ever before he retires) is going to have to possess one punch k-o power, have very good hand speed, be able to outbox him & have the defense to avoid the accurate counter shots floyd jr is known for. Other than that, its not happening. To talk about age is pointless, b/c there's only a 4 or 5 yr dff. and floyd stays in immaculate shape yr rd & has never taken a beating in the ring. He probably trains harder than most fighters including those younger than himself. I think the brother just came along at a time when the fighters in his wgt classes simply werent equal in overall talent.

[SkillspayBills]

Cotto is younger than Mayweather, has more power, and on the Mosley fight, Cotto show that he has great boxing skills as well. If you look at those opponents that have fought with both Floyd and Cotto you would see that Cotto finish ALL of them by stoppage while they ALL when the whole 12 rounds with Floyd. Cotto will defeat Mayweather by KO.

Those are the reason why Floyd would never take that fight. Every time he’s ask when he’s going to fight Cotto he says he’s retiring and then he come back to fight these other fights (the one’s he knows he could win). Why he rather take a safer fight against already beaten DLH? Becuse he would get more money that if he fought Cotto. Isn’t Floyd ****** rich already? So this is just another excuse not to fight Cotto!

Floyd, his team and his fans need to stop making excuses and make this fight happen so we can see who is better!!!!!!!

Why is Bill Gates still makin them ****in computers?

[moy22487]

the real manos de piedra was better than the sugar