Is the heavy-weight division dead?

[TheGreatA]

Liston and Patterson were not quality in the 70's. You have them on the same list as Holmes? Their careers didn't even overlap. The point here is that at no one point in time were there many quality HWs, and by HWs I mean legit HWs by today's standards.

I did say I meant both the 60's and 70's.

Btw I think the 90's were a great era for heavyweights but how many legit HW's do we have today. Wlad, maybe Chagaev, maybe Peter, maybe Ibragimov. Chambers and Povetkin have potential. It's better than it was a while ago with boxers like Briggs & Rahman & Ruiz as champions but I'm not exactly impressed.

[K-Nan]

Who is saying whether or not they could compete in today's game? Of course, many of them couldn't. Fighters were smaller. Louis would get kicked around by many of today's fighters. Does that make them greater?

[MELLY-MEL...]

the hw division is not as great as it has been, but i am not convinced it is all that bad! the biggest problem is the lack of fights. they are simply not making the big match ups we need. the fighter themselves are also not fighting all that often. maybe the wlad - sultan fight will start to open things up and we will see some more fights between the top guys.

[Knicksman20]

Seriously. It has nothing to do with Nationality. The division is shallow. Stop being so hostile. Nobody else dragged the topic into the subject but you. And I personally could care less where the fighters are from. You don't have to believe him, then. Take my word for it- I'm NOT saying this because of where they're from.

Great point Kaynan. People are so quick to be defensive & go on the offensive when saying anything remotely critical of the Heavies today. And I agree with the poster that said that the division is boring because the fights are not entertaining.

[kayjay]

I did say I meant both the 60's and 70's.

But you need to take one slice of time to make a comparison meaningful. At only few points were there many good HW contenders. A young Clay was starved for opposition. He didn't fight anyone (Chuvalo was rugged and powerful, but that's it).

Frazier came up in a weak time. Now when all three champs were active at one time, ('73-4) you had a strong division. But that lasted only two or three years

[kayjay]

Great point Kaynan. People are so quick to be defensive & go on the offensive when saying anything remotely critical of the Heavies today. And I agree with the poster that said that the division is boring because the fights are not entertaining.

You have to adjust to the different age. If you like to watch the little men fight and throw a million meaningless shots, that's fine. BUt you can't ask that of 260 lb. men who can kill each other with any one shot. You have to fight conservative. But it's more suspenseful than watching Pac and Marquez throw a thousand off balance arm punches (which is all they do).

[TheGreatA]

Really after seeing Rahman and Briggs struggle with 210 lbs men (Sultan&Toney) I'm not sure if all that weight, power and strenght is so useful after all.

Tyson and Holyfield were successful and they were 205-220. I think that's the best weight for heavyweights. There are huge, athletic guys like Lewis and Wlad who are 230-240 and they are very good too.

[kayjay]

You can't count Briggs for anything.

Now watch Wlad against Ibragimov, or imagine him against Toney.

Do you think Wlad would struggle with much of Ali's competition? And I'm not comparing Wlad to Ali. But Bonavena, Quarry, Chuvalo, etc., would get seriously hurt

[K-Nan]

You have to adjust to the different age. If you like to watch the little men fight and throw a million meaningless shots, that's fine. BUt you can't ask that of 260 lb. men who can kill each other with any one shot. You have to fight conservative. But it's more suspenseful than watching Pac and Marquez throw a thousand off balance arm punches (which is all they do).

I'm a Welter---SuperMiddle man my self. 147 to 168. You get everything: speed, power, skill.

If you're saying that the division has evolved, then I guess I don't like what it's evolved into. And you're right that they have to fight this way now becuase they're bigger guys.

[Knicksman20]

You have to adjust to the different age. If you like to watch the little men fight and throw a million meaningless shots, that's fine. BUt you can't ask that of 260 lb. men who can kill each other with any one shot. You have to fight conservative. But it's more suspenseful than watching Pac and Marquez throw a thousand off balance arm punches (which is all they do).

I definitely adjusted but the entertainment factor is not there. I think that's what most would agree with & not to mention the skill is lacking. Fights like Morrison vs Ruddock, Cooper vs Holyfield, Dokes vs Holyfield, Ruddock vs Tyson I, ect.... Some of those fighters weren't the most skillful, but were just as good if not better then most of the guys that are active now.