Joe Calzaghe is nothing "special"....

[Guest]

It's not feasible to think about the Blow at 160 because he struggles enough to simply make the 168 limit. As for Hopkins, I think out pointing the #2 best P4P fighter in the sport at the time (Wright) and capturing the LHW title from Tarver alone are more impressive feats than beating Jeff Lacy and Mikkel Kessler.

Tarver was always pretty ropey, and got his name from KOing a shot to pieces and roidless Roy Jones.

People need to get over this "P4P" obsession as an all-encompassing concept... remember, before he beat Lacy only ONE Ring writer had The Blow in their P4P top ten list. So what, he suddenly got good overnight?

As for Wanky Wrong, a boxer who was fouled repeatedly by Borehard, he was CLEARLY a much smaller man in the ring and was outgunned by Borehard. I'm not saying Bore should be penalised for that, but again it shifts towards a two foot mexican type of situation.

[Orange Sneakers]

I'm just wondering though, since you are picking B-Hop to win, would you give Calzaghe full credit if he were to win?

Look, at the end of the day, these guys will be approaching 37 and 44 respectively

It should have happened six or seven years ago

Hopkins at his best beats Calzaghe at his best, and the Hopkins who fought Tarver beats Calzaghe's style and attributes

[ßringer]

1. Joe Calzaghe = Jesus Christ.

2. Give me an example of where The Blow was pushed backwards and unable to fight.

Kessler, only at moments in the fight, but there were occasions where pushed Joe back and connected easily. Sadly for the Schnell, that only happened a small handful of times.

And that's a BAD thing??? After eleven rounds where he's ahead on points with The Schnell, he goes "Listen - have a free crack at my chin just for ****s and giggles, isn't it?"

I think it's a dumb thing to risk, but it's easy to risk when you're fighting the guys Calzaghe is. I doubt Joe would be doing the same thing against a guy like Dawson.

Funnily enough, when he fought Eubank he was known as a ****er more than a boxer. His power HAS deteriorated, but it's underrated by the majority of Fat Yanks and may return at Light Heavy. Need I remind you of "And Lacy's hurt! Lacy's hurt in the first round! We thought it might be Calzoogee that got hurt early!"

You don't need to remind me, I've always hated Lacy and hoped Joe would beat him. Granted I didn't think it would be that one-sided (who did?) but I still favored Calzaghe heavily. Probably because I was the only American who'd never heard of Lacy.

Actually, less than 42% of his fights have been in Wales. I appreciate that Fat Yanks may not quite appreciate the refineries of fighting the likes of Robin Reid in England, but The Blow has twice fought in Germany. I appreciate that geographically Germany is near ("it's still his backyard" - The Semi Senor, 2006) but Germany is THE most hostile environment for ANY boxer... and that includes America.

Did you pull 42% out of your ass? Hate to call you on it but it seems quite random. How does fighting twice in Germany beat coming to the U.S. to fight a guy like Jones or Hops in their prime?

Who ARE these "big names" of which you speak? America hasn't had a consistent presence in the SMW division (Roy passed through when the Blow was just a novice) and every Fat Yank that's meant anything has travelled over and got pwned.

I'm not saying the best fighters are American, I'm saying they fight in America. Something Calzaghe's never done.

But then it's a catch-22... he can't fight them because he's not a "name", but he can't get a "name" without fighting them, because the Fat Yanks refuse to acknowledge anyone who isn't a Fat Yank. Look at how many people are saying "who?" over Kessler. Joe got his name by beating up a punching bag with a US passport.

Americans acknowledge talent, not Nationality. Miguel Cotto is a huge star in the U.S. The only huge American star in the U.S. right now would be Oscar De La Fishnets, maybe even Moby but not as big. Joe should've pursued fighting in the States years ago, even pre-Lacy. But he's never been willing to risk it.

So instead he calls up a bum in Lacy, and the conversation goes.

Joe: "Ey'a Jeff, eye wanna fight yew in me hometown of Wales."

Lacy: "Yes suh! It's a be the biggest payday of me entire career, and maybe I can finally get known! I'sa be right over dere and whip you good!"

(End of conversation)

Show me the interviews where The Blow has said this.

Actions speak louder than words. There are no intervews of Calzaghe ever saying he wouldn't fight outside of Wales, because he never has said such. However, his actions show precisely that. He reminds me of the guy who talks of how unafraid he is to fight whoever, wherever, but when whoever he calls out challenges him to get on a plane, he looks down at his shoes and opts to fight his mum's mailman instead.


[QUOTEWhile his career could have been better, the likes of (old) Eubank, Robin Reid and Mitchell aren't exactly "nobodies". Every 1 in 2 of the Blow's opponents was a worthy challenger IMO.][/QUOTE]

"Worthy challenger" may be an apt discription, but "noted legends" they will certainly never be.

[QUOTEA "legend". The way people talk, it's as if Hopkins's competition was stellar.. it wasn't. It was a LITTLE better than The Blow's, but not as much as people (Yanks) like to make out. When your career defining fight comes against a two foot Mexican, it ain't saying much.][/QUOTE]

Apples to Oranges, but Hopkins has the better title defense record, and the higher profile victories. That's not open to debate, awfully sorry about that, isn't it?

[Guest]

Although i disagree with a lot of said The_Bringer said, you can't tell me you dont have Slopkins in the alltime middleweight greats?

Trinidad, De la hoya, Tarver, Wright, Jones, Taylor compare that tot he people Blow has fought.

Tito I'll give you, but he LOST to two of that list, two of them were at Light-Heavy so it's immaterial to his status as an all time MIDDLEWEIGHT great, and that leaves....



... the two foot Mexican.

[Run]

Say what you want about Calzaghe and him fighting in Wales and poor competition.

Who are the big names on Hopkins' record though?

DLH, Tito, Roy, Taylor, Winky, Tarver: Dlh started at 130 and went to 160, lost to Sturm and got koed by Hopkins while winning 3 rounds. Tito got outboxed silly and stopped but Tito was a small man too. He started at 147 and at 160 he got beat every single round by Winky Wright. Hopkins barely squeezed by a overweight Winky. He did beat convincigly Tarver though. He lost two decision against Taylor even though some may dispute that he did win both of them. I scored both of them for Taylor. He got beat by a one-armed Roy Jone.

In summary, disregard Tito and DLH as real middleweights cause they are not and they have proven it.

Bernard faced Roy and he lost. He faced Taylor twice and he both times. He won against Winky Wright, and he beat Antonio Tarver. 4 big names and 3 losses.

Who are the big names on Calzaghe' record?
Lacy - everybody favoured the highly-regarde undefeated Lacy to expose Calzaghe, and Joe shot him to pieces.
Kessler- another undefeated fighter who cleaned out the 168 pound division, known as one of the best technicians with speed and power, who resides at 168. Calzaghe beat him, and not like Hopkins beat Winky either
Eubank - He beat him convincingly.

He faced 3 big names and he beat them all convincingly.

Has Bernard fought outside of US? Yes, once in Ecuador and that was for the IBF middleweight title. According to boxrec he's seen the canvas twice and he's won by majority decision.

Has Joe been out of Wales? Yes, he's been to England, he's been to Denmark, he's been to Germany. So if you don't count England, Calzaghe's been to one more country than Bernard.

I just thought I would put things in better perspective.

Haha no........you didn't put anything into perspective. You simply typed out your opinion on the level of opposition that Calzaghe/Hopkins have faced respectively.

It's great to see that you gave Calzaghe props for beating Eubank..........even though Eubank was washed up and by no means the same fighter he was years before.

Kessler is a protected Dane, who's two biggest wins (Beyer and Mundine) aren't that great in reality. It's ok to "clean out" the division and get credit for that...........but clearly the talent is in the lower weights moving up. I thought that had clearly been established.

Lacy has not been the same fighter since round 1 of the Calzaghe fight. He's fought the exact same way ever since, and the back/shoulder injury might be to blame for that, who knows. Prior to the Calzaghe fight...........Lacy was busy and threw combinations on the inside. Against Calzaghe he showed that opponents can stifle him easily, and the simply fact that he hit some type of celing as a fighter. The struggle with Tsypko and Manfredo illustrated that.

De La Hoya, Trinidad, and Wright are all better fighters than Eubank, Kessler, and Lacy...........any way you slice it.



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[Sweet Pete]

.....despite whatever HBO's commentary crew may lead you to believe otherwise. Joe is an average fighter, and nothing more. He possesses some natural athletic ability, and some technical boxing savy but nothing to the level of what HBO would lead you to believe.

The Positive

On the positive side he has a tremendous work rate, he's a solid counter puncher, and a natural ability to switch styles if needed. This has worked for Calzaghe throughout his career thus far, simply swarm with activity, switch styles if needed, and cruise to a victory.

The Negative

Calzaghe's negatives far outweigh his positives, in my humble opinion. He has next to no defense whatsoever, he is incapable of fighting going backwards, he will scrap with a guy just for the sake of scrapping with him, and his punches pack all the power of a roman candle.

There's nothing extraordinary about a fighter like Calzaghe. He's fought only in his home Country of Wales for his entire career. That may not be a big deal to his fans, but it is to most boxing fans. Imagine if Miguel Cotto openly claimed to be one of the best without ever having fought outside of Puerto Rico. Or if Manny Pacquiao claimed to be one of the best without ever fighting outside of the Philippines. Or if Juan Manuel Marquez achieved his status without ever fighting big names in America?

The point is, the best are always willing to fight the best in America. Say what you will about Ricky Hatton but at least he had the stones to campaign in the division outside of his own backyard. Julio Cesar Chaves would've never attained the status he has if he continued to fight what the majority of the boxing public deemed as "tin cans" in Mexico instead of coming to the U.S. to fight the big names.

It's put up or shut up time for Joe Calzaghe. I don't have any ill feelings towards the guy, I'm not that type of "fan" who makes personal judgments about why they like/dislike certain fighters. I've just grown weary of Calzaghe's talk over the years, calling out guys like Hopkins and Jones when they were mega-stars and he still hadn't even beaten anybody of note.

I'm sorry Calzaghe (and his fans) but I'm very weary of any professional fighter who has refused to fight outside of his own backyard, and has been figting nobodies for the better of 15 years. Especially now that he's looking to cement his "legacy" off the back of a past his prime ring legend who's seen better days.

(For the record, I'm still backing Hopkins to beat that bum silly.)

So when he puts a lopsided beating(and it will happen) on Hopkins, will you be eating your words or will you say that Hopkins is just too old?

[Ironside]

Look, at the end of the day, these guys will be approaching 37 and 44 respectively

It should have happened six or seven years ago

Hopkins at his best beats Calzaghe at his best, and the Hopkins who fought Tarver beats Calzaghe's style and attributes

True, the age difference is big, but based on that and other things, you would pick the fighter who you think would win, the way I see it, you're picking B-Hop to win, If he wins, he gets all the credit, yet if he loses, it's ok because he was past his prime, either way Calslappy winds up getting no credit. Also, saying Hopkins from before would beat Calzaghe is an opinion, so we can't base it on that.

[ßringer]

So when he puts a lopsided beating(and it will happen) on Hopkins, will you be eating your words or will you say that Hopkins is just too old?

You should go back a page and actually read the thread before you think of something to post: This has already been addressed.

[-Antonio-]

I'm thinking Hopkins will win by UD. He matches up too well with Southpaws. His right counter finds Joe's face often.

[Orange Sneakers]

Apples to Oranges, but Hopkins has the better title defense record, and the higher profile victories.

Woodhall, Brewer, Mitchell, Lacy and Kessler > Hopkins's challengers

Echols, Eastman and Holmes are considered Hopkins's best - Brewer was robbed against Echols, Woodhall schooled Eastman in the gym and was beating Holmes with one arm (even the American commentators had him "three or four rounds up" - he was on his way to a robbery), and then you have Mitchell, Lacy and Kessler on top of that!

And in America, maybe Hopkins's victories over Trinidad and Tarver are higher profile than Calzaghe's over Lacy and Kessler

But in Britain, Calzaghe's victories over Reid, Woodhall, Mitchell and Lacy are high profile (his win over Eubank was a Eubank loss, not a Calzaghe win), and all his victories are higher profile than Hopkins's

If Calzaghe walked down 7th Avenue in New York, he'd be recognised by people for sure

If Hopkins walked down Cardiff City Centre, not one person would know who the hell he was