Arum: "Pavlik's Win, The Biggest Blow To UFC"

[1bad65]

I never said boxing was dying. I WANT it to fix it's problems and get better. Couture may be 44, but he is honestly not past his prime. A big factor is that he started MMA at the age of 34, so his body has not taken alot of abuse(compare his speech with Toney or Holyfield). I also never said MMA will take over boxing, it MAY one day be bigger, but who knows. Dana can be pompous, but I'd take him over King or Arum any day. Lampley has taken shots at MMA, and he was ****** enough to do it on the DLH/Mayweather PPV telecast. Giving another sport airtime on your own huge PPV and after a boring fight is pretty ******.

[mrpain81]

UFC is growing, boxing really is stagnant or even in decline. Facts are facts. Look at what UFC guys made 5 years ago and what they do now. It's getting bigger. Look at how big the NBA was in the 1970s and what the players made, and then look at it now. Sports that fans want to see will grow.

If boxing is the better sport explain how guys like John Ruiz, a 44-year old Holyfield, and a blown up, pushing 40 MW like James Toney are either recent HW champs or are considered contenders now. If boxing had a deep talent pool, this would not be the case.

And no matter what you think, I'm a fan of both sports. And I've always been a Toney fan. I want boxing to do better, it's why I can see it's problems and point them out.

I really like your points but the fact of the matter is, Boxing is gaining steam at the Moment and MMA,UFC in particular is stuck in a strange place where we dont know if it will keep growing or it will start its decline. You Bring up old fighters Like Holyfield,Toney and That chump Ruiz, Yet in your great sport, the heavyweight champ is a guy with a 16 - 8 Record and is 44 years old. talk about a sport of the future, UFC started gaining strenth last year when Hughes fought gracie at the staples center, and it reached its peak when Lidell Ko'd Ortiz on the New years eve Show. Since then they stopped Realeasing the PPV Numbers and Most of the Top stars have been getting Destroyed by Journeymen fighters.

You have to admit that Lidell was the UFC's main draw, Now with him getting destroyed in 80 seconds, then dominated by a chump comming off a ko loss. Who are the future stars? GSP? Maybe in canada, but he aint no superman Just ask Serra. Anderson Silva? He's probably the best fighter in the MMA world P4P but he's black and is Brazilian. Not a good combination for the UFC"s Demographic, I see MMA slowing down alot and Boxing is having the Best year Since 2000.

And u say boxing is in decline yet last year was boxing second best year for PPV Numbers and this year it will sell even more. I Love both sports but MMA is looking boring to me now that pride is gone and most the guys are losing tune up fights, Making the sport look like a damn crap shoot. Face the facts Joe Rogan Said MMA was "Swallowing" Boxing and He said boxing Would never have any stars after the Delahoya and Holyfield and Hopkins. Yet we have Kelly Pavlik a huge star in the making, and UFC has a 44 year old Heavyweight champ that was the champ 10 years ago.

[the Bender]

I really like your points but the fact of the matter is, Boxing is gaining steam at the Moment and MMA,UFC in particular is stuck in a strange place where we dont know if it will keep growing or it will start its decline. You Bring up old fighters Like Holyfield,Toney and That chump Ruiz, Yet in your great sport, the heavyweight champ is a guy with a 16 - 8 Record and is 44 years old. talk about a sport of the future, UFC started gaining strenth last year when Hughes fought gracie at the staples center, and it reached its peak when Lidell Ko'd Ortiz on the New years eve Show. Since then they stopped Realeasing the PPV Numbers and Most of the Top stars have been getting Destroyed by Journeymen fighters.

You have to admit that Lidell was the UFC's main draw, Now with him getting destroyed in 80 seconds, then dominated by a chump comming off a ko loss. Who are the future stars? GSP? Maybe in canada, but he aint no superman Just ask Serra. Anderson Silva? He's probably the best fighter in the MMA world P4P but he's black and is Brazilian. Not a good combination for the UFC"s Demographic, I see MMA slowing down alot and Boxing is having the Best year Since 2000.

And u say boxing is in decline yet last year was boxing second best year for PPV Numbers and this year it will sell even more. I Love both sports but MMA is looking boring to me now that pride is gone and most the guys are losing tune up fights, Making the sport look like a damn crap shoot. Face the facts Joe Rogan Said MMA was "Swallowing" Boxing and He said boxing Would never have any stars after the Delahoya and Holyfield and Hopkins. Yet we have Kelly Pavlik a huge star in the making, and UFC has a 44 year old Heavyweight champ that was the champ 10 years ago.

EXACTLY !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[1bad65]

Couture is a young 44, he is not declining physically like Toney and Holyfield are. He won his last fight with a BROKEN ARM! The Hughes/Gracie and Ortiz/Shamrock fights had huge PPV numbers, and they were good fights. Other than the Pavlik fight, boxings recent PPVs have been not very good. They always have less fights and they have more 'snoozefests' on the card like Mayweater/DLH or Dirrell/Stevens. Boxing's talent is declining, and IMO it's because less athletes are entering it(a point no one wants to address). Boxing's last P4P king was Roy Jones JR, a very exciting fighter. Now it's Mayweather, the cure for insomnia.

Another factor is the lack of FREE boxing and the large amount of FREE UFC/MMA. I'm only 35, but I remember seeing guys like Sugar Ray Leonard fight on ABC's Wide World of Sports. I remember seeing guys like Rid**** Bowe, Arturo Gatti, Mayweather, David Tua, etc on Tuesday Night Fights on USA Network. IMO, the free cards are what draws in new fans. Not too many people will pay over $50 to see a sport they MIGHT like. Notice how UFC really took off with the Ultimate Fighter reality show and SpikeTV showing free UFC cards. Where are boxing's free shows? Boxing fans here tend to hate The Contender and they say the talent on FNF on ESPN is subpar. This is not a good way to get new fans.

Remember, Arum promised to put Pavlik on FREE TV. I'm betting he won't. I bet he will see what he can make by putting his next fight on PPV and he will not put him on free TV. He will take the quick money rather than investing in trying to pick up new fans. A guy like Pavlik is PERFECT to get new fans. But you know greed will **** it up. We shall see.

[the Bender]

[QUOTE=1bad65;2707902]Couture is a young 44, he is not declining physically like Toney and Holyfield are. He won his last fight with a BROKEN ARM! The Hughes/Gracie and Ortiz/Shamrock fights had huge PPV numbers, and they were good fights. Other than the Pavlik fight, boxings recent PPVs have been not very good. They always have less fights and they have more 'snoozefests' on the card like Mayweater/DLH or Dirrell/Stevens. Boxing's talent is declining, and IMO it's because less athletes are entering it(a point no one wants to address). Boxing's last P4P king was Roy Jones JR, a very exciting fighter. Now it's Mayweather, the cure for insomnia.



He won with a broken arm cause the other guys suck. I don't care if he is a young 44 or not, everyone else in the division sucks. In the UFC it's impossible to have a big star because in my opinion, though they are talented,with streetfight tactics anyone can beat anyone. Look at crocop, sanchez, liddell, shugon, Hughes, st.Pieere etc, all the biggest stars and names just got they asses kicked, some of them twice in a row. yeh in boxing there can be a lucky punch so anyone can beat anyone in that too, but much more so in the UFC. When have we seen that many major upsets in a row in boxing, with the UFC any hick can beat anyone. Also u say how boxing is more boring now with out many exciting fighters, well i don't know about u but im willing to bet the majority of people rather watch a mayweather fight than two guys grabbing and hugging and sweating all over each other, wrestling around on the floor together for twenty minutes only for it to end in an extremely anti-climatic armbar victory. Think about it, if u took a poll who would teh majority of people say are most exciting guys in the UFC, it would be Lidell, cropcop, griffin, bonnar, chris leben, rampage quentin, and silva. What do they all have in common? THEIR STRiKERS!!!, the oother wrestling and takedown **** isn't as exciting even to UFC fans and that's why these guys are the most popular and famous names. i think i'll stick to a sport that is primarily and completely involved in the striking without the gay humping and wresting and ****.

[1bad65]

The fact that there are so many ways to lose and alot of upsets are a reason the UFC is growing. No one really enjoys a 12 round boxing match that ends with scores like 120-108, 119-109, and 120-108. Where is the drama in that? As for boring boxers, I named TWO guys only. There are plenty of exciting ones, it's just that the reigning P4P king is about as exciting as watching paint dry. As much as I can't stand watching Mayweather, I'm no fan of boring MMA guys like Tim Sylvia or Josh Koschek. I paid over $50 for Mayweather/DLH, and as much as I hope that the Mayweather/Hatton fight is a good fight, NO WAY will I risk my $50 on a gamble like that again. Dana White is smart enough that when Sylvia was the champ he put up a damn good undercard to offset the main event. Who was on the undercard of Mayweather/DLH again? See my point as to which sport seems to try and give it's fans their money's worth?

I admit alot of MMA fans like standup action more than ground work. But to call it 'gay' or say it's 'grabbing and hugging' is as ignorant as non-boxing people saying boxing is just two brutes hitting each other in the face. There is a science, a technique, to both ground work and standup work.

You may not like MMA, its all good and it's not for everyone. But you can't tell me with a straight face that paying over $50 to watch a Mayweather fight is worth the money.

[nfc90210]

I hate to go Johnny Cochran on you but "If it was Tyrone Hughes and Hector Liddell the **** wouldn't sell"

In terms of money drawn the UFC’s biggest star has been Tito Ortiz. Who, you know, isn’t white.

A few months back Arum said something to the effect that MMA is successful because 90% of the fighters are white guys from the Mid-West. The amusing thing about that quote was that there was an MMA show on Showtime that weekend that, as Dave Meltzer pointed out, featured…

a Vietnamese guy from San Jose, a Mexican guy from San Jose, an Italian guy from New York, another Mexican guy from San Jose, an African-American son of a pro wrestler, an African-American guy who ate too many donuts from Modesto, a ****y white guy from Stanford, and some Brazilian guy who everyone runs up to him and thinks it's his brother.

chuck liddel makes something liek hundred thousand a fight (in fact i think it's less),

The numbers released to the commission don’t represent what the top guys are actually making. It was reported by credible sources that after their fight in December that when it was said and done Liddell and Ortiz ended up with three million dollars a piece.

UFC in particular is stuck in a strange place where we dont know if it will keep growing or it will start its decline.

While the UFC doesn’t have the blockbuster match ups this year that they did last year their base has grown significantly.

To quote something from the last issue of the Wrestling Observer newsletter…

…In last week’s note about UFC and buy rates, the key thing is that the base audience for UFC on PPV has grown tremendously. The “weak” main event number in early 2006 for George St Pierre Vs BJ Penn was 275,000 buys. A year later, a show like Anderson Silva Vs Travis Lutter or George St Pierre Vs Matt Serra was doing 350,000 to 400,000 buys. Even though it appears that the lack of monster dream fights this year will mean PPV numbers, for the year, will fall below last year (even though they were way ahead after six months) it’s still a positive trend…