Whitaker revisionism

**ianblake** · 08-27-2007, 10:37 PM

i remember was a lot more close than that for me, very dificult to score

**shawn_** · 08-27-2007, 10:48 PM

I watched both of those fights today.

Whitaker vs Chavez was a onesided blowout for Whitaker. One of the top 10 worst decisions in recent history.

He was far from moving backwards at full speed. He was turning Chavez around in small circles near the center of the ring while peppering his face and body with hard punches.

Whitaker vs De La Hoya was Oscar outworking Whitaker for the win. Lots of elusiveness and clowning from Whitaker, but you could see his skills were degrading.

He was getting hit more and was hitting back less.

**DIOS DOMINICANO** · 08-27-2007, 11:22 PM

Originally posted by kayjay

2. It doesn't go without saying either that his draw with JCC was some kind of disgraceful robbery. He didn't show "ring generalship," he showed evasive boxing at its worst, but only he coupled that with effective punching. If he didn't move backwards at full speed the whole time it would be a different story. Also, he took some punishment there. All in all it's not easy to judge that.

3. It's only since Mayweather has dissed the other great fighters of the 90's that Whitaker has become spoken of as if he were Ray Robinson. He wasn't. He's roughly in the same rank as De La Hoya and Trinidad, maybe a notch below them

Kayjay,

I respect you....but you clearly have fallen and hit your head.

**DIOS DOMINICANO** · 08-27-2007, 11:36 PM

Y'all musta forgot.

Originally posted by kayjay

3. It's only since Mayweather has dissed the other great fighters of the 90's that Whitaker has become spoken of as if he were Ray Robinson. He wasn't. He's roughly in the same rank as De La Hoya and Trinidad, maybe a notch below them

http://dynamic.si.cnn.com/si_online/...1994/1010.html

Dec 89

1: Tyson
2: JCC
3: Taylor
4: Nunn
5: Holyfield
6: Whitaker
7: SRL
8: Fenech
9: Nelson
10: Starling

Dec 90

1: JCC
2: Whitaker
3: Tyson
4: Taylor
5: Douglas
6: Brown
7: Esparagoza
8: Nunn
9: Holyfield
10: Humberto Gonzales

December 91

1: JCC
2: Whitaker
3: Holyfield
4: Tyson
5: Taylor
6: McCallum
7: Hearns
8: Galaxy
9: Norris
10: Kyun Park

Dec 92

1: JCC
2: Norris
3: Whitaker
4: McGirt
5: Bowe
6: Nelson
7: Barkley
7: Canizales
9: Jackson
10: RJJ
10: Lewis
10: McCallum

December 93

1: Whitaker
2: JCC
3: Norris
4: Toney
5: Carbajal
6: Holyfield
7: McGirt
8: RJJ
9: Canizales
10: Lopez

December 94

1: Whitaker
2: RJJ
3: McClellan
4: Randall
5: Lopez
6: Canizales
7: Gonzales
8: Toney
9: Trinidad
10: Kelley

Dec 95

1: RJJ
2: Whitaker
3: DLH
4: Trinidad
5: Barrera
6: Bowe
7: Lopez
8: Chavez
9: Quartey
10: Hamed

Ring magazine pound for pound rankings;

Feb 1993

1: JCC
2: Whitaker
3: Norris
4: Holyfield
5: Canizales
6: McGirt
7: Nelson
8: Julian Jackson
9: Kil Moon
10: Toney

Sept 96

1: RJJ
2: Whitaker
3: DLH
4: Trinidad
5: Barrera
6: Lopez
7: Tszyu
8: Bowe
9: Norris
10: Tyson

Sept 98

1: DLH
2: RJJ
3: Holyfield
4: Trinidad
5: Mark Johnson
6: Whitaker
7: Hamed
8: Tapia
9: Lopez
10: Hopkins

**DIOS DOMINICANO** · 08-27-2007, 11:51 PM

Originally posted by kayjay

3. It's only since Mayweather has dissed the other great fighters of the 90's that Whitaker has become spoken of as if he were Ray Robinson. He wasn't. He's roughly in the same rank as De La Hoya and Trinidad, maybe a notch below them

List of boxing's all time best fighters (in order), as deemed by Ring's writers:
Sugar Ray Robinson
Henry Armstrong
Muhammad Ali
Joe Louis
Roberto Duran
Willie Pep
Harry Greb
Benny Leonard
Sugar Ray Leonard
Pernell Whitaker # 10
Carlos Monzon
Rocky Marciano
Ezzard Charles
Archie Moore
Sandy Saddler
Jack Dempsey
Marvin Hagler
Julio C�sar Ch�vez
Eder Jofre
Alexis Arguello
Barney Ross
Evander Holyfield
Ike Williams
Salvador Sanchez
George Foreman
Kid Gavilan
Larry Holmes
Mickey Walker
Ruben Olivares
Gene Tunney
**** Tiger
Fighting Harada
Emile Griffith
Tony Canzoneri
Aaron Pryor
Pascual Perez
Miguel Canto
Manuel Ortiz
Charley Burley
Carmen Basilio
Michael Spinks
Joe Frazier
Khaosai Galaxy
Roy Jones, Jr.
Tiger Flowers
Panama Al Brown
Kid Chocolate
Joe Brown
Tommy Loughran
Bernard Hopkins
Felix Trinidad
Jake LaMotta
Lennox Lewis
Wilfredo G�mez
Bob Foster
Jose Napoles
Billy Conn
Jimmy McLarnin
Pancho Villa
Carlos Ortiz
Bob Montgomery
Freddie Miller
Benny Lynch
Beau Jack
Azumah Nelson
Eusebio Pedroza
Thomas Hearns
Wilfred Benitez
Antonio Cervantes
Ricardo Lopez
Sonny Liston
Mike Tyson
Vicente Saldivar
Gene Fullmer
Oscar de la Hoya
Carlos Zarate
Marcel Cerdan
Flash Elorde
Mike McCallum
Harold Johnson
Retrieved from "http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ring_Magazine%27s_list_of_the_80_Best_Fighters_of_ the_Last_80_Years"

**Steak** · 08-27-2007, 11:51 PM

wins over Roger Mayweather, Greg Haugen, 2 over Ramirez, 1st round KO Juan Nazario, wins over HOF fighters Buddy McGirt, Azumah Nelson, Julio Cesar Chavez, win over near undefeated long reining L Middleweight champion JC Vasquez(most noted for his win over Winky Wright, where he knocked him down a number of times)

10 wins with the Lightweight title, short time light welterweight champion with his win over Pineda, 9 wins with the Welterweight title, short time Light Middleweight champion.

was 42-0 before losing finally to an undefeated near prime multi-weight class champion Oscar De La Hoya disputedly.

anyone who has started at lightweight and has dominant wins like McGirt, ATG JC Chavez and Vazquez is definately up there in the p4p rankings all time, I dont give a **** what anyone says. name me a fighter that has that big of names on their record, and had still beat them THAT convincingly. theres not many...

you could tell Pernell wasnt in his prime, he had just gotten dropped twice and fought completely unlike himself in his last fight against Hurtado. it was pretty clear in that fight...and Pernell possibly still won that fight against De La Hoya. Its been a while since Ive seen that fight though so I wont comment on that match.
Pernells accomplishments are amazing. he belongs at least in the top 20 ATG p4p as far as Im concerned.
________
Sativa strains

**-Hyperion-** · 08-27-2007, 11:54 PM

Originally posted by kayjay

I got nothing against this Hall of Fame fighter, I just want to discuss a few claims that have become commonplace in here.

1. Here are the scores for his fight with De La Hoya:

referee: Mills Lane | judge: Chuck Giampa 111-115 | judge: Jerry Roth 110-116 | judge: Dalby Shirley 110-116 ~
~ WBC welterweight title ~

Now a lot of people disagree with these scores, and you're free to do so. But to claim either that Whitaker was robbed or that this was a questionable decision is plain revisionism. I described this in another thread as a "wide decision" for Oscar. It was that.

At the time Whitaker was, what, 33? Oscar was what? 24? No advantage to Oscar there. Sorry.

2. It doesn't go without saying either that his draw with JCC was some kind of disgraceful robbery. He didn't show "ring generalship," he showed evasive boxing at its worst, but only he coupled that with effective punching. If he didn't move backwards at full speed the whole time it would be a different story. Also, he took some punishment there. All in all it's not easy to judge that.

3. It's only since Mayweather has dissed the other great fighters of the 90's that Whitaker has become spoken of as if he were Ray Robinson. He wasn't. He's roughly in the same rank as De La Hoya and Trinidad, maybe a notch below them

i agree in 1 oscar won clearly..., disagree with 2 and 3.........

**DIOS DOMINICANO** · 08-27-2007, 11:55 PM

Originally posted by blackirish137

Pernells accomplishments are amazing. he belongs at least in the top 20 ATG p4p as far as Im concerned.

You have alot of company in that opinion.

**Lazy Liberal** · 08-27-2007, 11:57 PM

Pernell is too high on the list, and why is Tito like 20 spots ahead of ODLH?

Whitaker revisionism