Whos better Leonard or Duran

[Steak]

meh, Ring Magazine makes mistakes too. I frankly never understood why in the blazing depths of hell Jack Dempsey is always rated so high on p4p lists. I dont have many of his fights, but lets face it, his record is definately not good enough to make him a top 20 p4p fighter, sheez...nowhere near.

I think Durans is slightly better. but then again, I consider Leonards 'win' over Hagler to be...well, not a win at all. And that draw to Hearns 2nd time around, definately not a draw. If Leonard actually had wins over Hagler and Hearns at middle, I just might put Leonard higher.
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RX-2

[Brandish]

I NEVER made an excuse for Duran, being lazy and whatnot. Name ONE quote where I made an excuse for Duran's laziness. His outside-the-ring habits are HIS fault, and detracts from his legacy. Just like Leonard's inactivity (the main reason I rank him below Duran) hurts his.

and in the 7 years leoanrd was inactive what did duran do I love how you use ray's injury to diminish what he did when he was active. lets focus on what each fighter achieved while they were fighting most duran nuthuggers love to play the duran was active and fought until he was fifty, so what gerogre foreman did the same thing. the fact that you would rate duran over leonard based on his record which is barely above average shows you don't really know the history of boxing.

duran did not have one succesful defense of any title after 135 what top 5 fighter carries such a dubious distinction

What does Leonard being in his prime in 1980, and Hagler not being prime in 1987, have do with making excuses for Duran's laziness?

Are you arguing that Hagler was prime in 1987?

Hagler was slowly slipping for awhile (probably the Roldan fight), and Leonard would be the first to admit that he chose to fight Hagler when he saw signs of slippage against Mugabi.

You can talk all you want about "Duran groupies", but I don't especially like Duran or Leonard. I just think what Duran did in the 70s mainly puts him on the top of the fab 4 for a whole career. Activity level is important IMO in ranking fighters.

leonard was not prime when he fought hagler. at least hagler was active ray was coming off a 7 year layoff and beat one of the best middleweight champs of all time something duran could not do in his prime

duran lost to the fighters ray beat no way duran gets ranked above him on any level not title defenses, not ATG's beaten nothing other than duran kept losing fights until he was 50.

if you really want to know about your all-time great legend you better take a look at box rec.

[Hydro]

and in the 7 years leoanrd was inactive what did duran do I love how you use ray's injury to diminish what he did when he was active. lets focus on what each fighter achieved while they were fighting most duran nuthuggers love to play the duran was active and fought until he was fifty, so what gerogre foreman did the same thing. the fact that you would rate duran over leonard based on his record which is barely above average shows you don't really know the history of boxing.

No, the fact that I have Duran over Leonard shows that like many others, I have a different view than you do.

Leonard was inactive for the most of the 80s. After fighting at the top level of the sport for 3 years from 1979-1982. Duran was fighting at the highest level of the sport, at the top of the lightweight, and later WW division, for the greater part of 1972 to 1980, 8 years.

duran did not have one succesful defense of any title after 135 what top 5 fighter carries such a dubious distinction

Harry Greb.

leonard was not prime when he fought hagler. at least hagler was active ray was coming off a 7 year layoff and beat one of the best middleweight champs of all time something duran could not do in his prime

duran lost to the fighters ray beat no way duran gets ranked above him on any level not title defenses, not ATG's beaten nothing other than duran kept losing fights until he was 50.

if you really want to know about your all-time great legend you better take a look at box rec.

Seven year layoff? Leonard was inactive for 3 years, and fought once in 5 years.

Yeah, both Leonard and Hagler were past their prime. It still means less for a non-prime Leonard to beat a non-prime Hagler than it is for a non-prime Duran to beat a non-prime Leonard.

I don't see why you're getting so bent out of shape about this.

You're coming across as much of a Leonard "groupie" than me being a Duran "groupie", by suggesting that it is impossible to rate Leonard below Duran.

[Poet682006]

I don't see why you're getting so bent out of shape about this.

Because he's a nuthugger LOL!

Poet

[Brandish]

No, the fact that I have Duran over Leonard shows that like many others, I have a different view than you do.

based on what criteria

Leonard was inactive for the most of the 80s. After fighting at the top level of the sport for 3 years from 1979-1982. Duran was fighting at the highest level of the sport, at the top of the lightweight, and later WW division, for the greater part of 1972 to 1980, 8 years.

stop lying duran after 1980 was considered washed up. he won a title at 154 and couldn't hold on to it, then won a title at 160 6 years later. face the facts man duran is not better than leonard you have yet to put forth any facts to show he was better. how can a guy who only beat 1 ATG be better than the guy who beat 4

[Brandish]

Seven year layoff? Leonard was inactive for 3 years, and fought once in 5 years.

Yeah, both Leonard and Hagler were past their prime. It still means less for a non-prime Leonard to beat a non-prime Hagler than it is for a non-prime Duran to beat a non-prime Leonard.

what ATG did duran beat after his first fight with ray leonard in 1980 you guessed it 0. now if you are basing duran as being better than leonard based on their first fight then you are definitely a duran nuthugger to the highest.

I don't see why you're getting so bent out of shape about this.

You're coming across as much of a Leonard "groupie" than me being a Duran "groupie", by suggesting that it is impossible to rate Leonard below Duran.

I'm not bent out of shape, you are just running out of excuses to place duran over leonard. I mean what criteria are you using. duran beat barkley for a middleweight title, surely you are not saying barkely rates higher than hagler at any age

[Hydro]

I already gave you my reasoning. All the fights with the Fab 4 came after Duran established himself as the fighter of the 70s along with Monzon, and arguably the greatest ever @ 135, a traditional weight class.

Some guys go thru different divisions and win titles in short amount of time at each weight class. Others reign for a long time in one. Duran did both. A 6 year run as lightweight champ is a long time.

Duran was already a great for his time at lightweight, and did even more with wins over guys like Palomino, Leonard, Moore, Barkley, etc..

If someone thinks Leonard is greater, then that's fine with me. I can see the arguments for both guys.

I just don't feel the need to resort to calling people groupies and saying they don't know their history, even when they make statements like "Leonard came out of a SEVEN year retirement to fight Hagler"

[Brandish]

I already gave you my reasoning. All the fights with the Fab 4 came after Duran established himself as the fighter of the 70s along with Monzon, and arguably the greatest ever @ 135, a traditional weight class.

and leonard established himself as the greatest fighter of the 1980's once again to list duran above leonard what did he accomplish in his career @ 135that was better then what ray leonard accomplished from 147-175

Some guys go thru different divisions and win titles in short amount of time at each weight class. Others reign for a long time in one. Duran did both. A 6 year run as lightweight champ is a long time.

stop lying duran did not defend a title outside of lightweight. and you talk about a 6 year reign hagler reigned for 7 years b-hops for close to 10 are you saying duran is better then leonard because of his run of bums at 135.

Duran was already a great for his time at lightweight, and did even more with wins over guys like Palomino, Leonard, Moore, Barkley, etc..

are you saying leoanrd did not beat better fighters in more impressive fashion.

If someone thinks Leonard is greater, then that's fine with me. I can see the arguments for both guys.

not an argument just stating the facts, something duran's career is sorley lacking.

I just don't feel the need to resort to calling people groupies and saying they don't know their history, even when they make statements like "Leonard came out of a SEVEN year retirement to fight Hagler"

nuthugging is stating duran is better then leonard, yeah you make statements like that you gotta get torn apart. they weren't even comparable

[Hydro]

stop lying duran did not defend a title outside of lightweight. and you talk about a 6 year reign hagler reigned for 7 years b-hops for close to 10 are you saying duran is better then leonard because of his run of bums at 135.

I never said Duran defended a title outside of lightweight. You sure like to put words in other people's mouths. I said some guys win titles in multiple weight classes, despite not having the title for a short time. Others have long reigns in one weight class. Duran did both.

And Duran's opponents at 135 were not bums.

are you saying leoanrd did not beat better fighters in more impressive fashion.

No, Leonard had the edge in common opponents, obviously.

nuthugging is stating duran is better then leonard, yeah you make statements like that you gotta get torn apart. they weren't even comparable

No, nuthugging is saying that Leonard is clearly greater than Duran without argument.

[Nostromo]

The issue has been settled. Most boxing historians, writers, publications, broadcasters, fans, and reasonable observers everywhere rate Duran higher among the p4p all-time greatest fighters. All the childish bickering and insult-trading on this thread ain't gonna change that. If the thread-starter had posted a poll, Duran would be way ahead on that too. So let's all get a life and go back to what we were doing, 'cause the jury is in, folks: Duran's better that Leonard! Hands (of stone) down...