Whos better Leonard or Duran

[Brandish]

Ring Magazine's list of the 80 Best Fighters of the Last 80 Years:
1 Sugar Ray Robinson
2 Henry Armstrong
3 Muhammad Ali
4 Joe Louis
5 Roberto Duran
6 Willie Pep
7 Harry Greb
8 Benny Leonard
9 Sugar Ray Leonard
10 Pernell Whitaker

I don't agree with that list, they seem to lack sound criteria for placing fighters. their methodology is put some names in a hat and draw.

[Sin City]

Given the big picture, I don't see "no mas" as that much of a stigma. Duran probably felt he was trailing on all cards and would need a KO to win, which he doubted he could score, given his failure to do so in Montreal. So, he decided to lose the fight on his own terms; like a man trapped in a burning building (WTC on 9/11 comes to mind) who leaps to his death to avoid being burned to a crisp.

...And with "hands of stone", no less...

Durans manager made him take the fight too soon because Leonards people offered him a lot of money for it. Duran was having problems making weight and fully recovering cus he was getting older so his trainer was making him take hormones by injecting them into his stomach which made him sick and the night of the fight he had some stake and started getting cramps and achs in his stomach which he believes was because of the hormones.. Thats the explanation he gave to why he quit.. Leonard was in great shape and condition the night of the fight and was on his A game and Duran was having those problems.

[wmute]

Ring Magazine's list of the 80 Best Fighters of the Last 80 Years:
1 Sugar Ray Robinson
2 Henry Armstrong
3 Muhammad Ali
4 Joe Louis
5 Roberto Duran
6 Willie Pep
7 Harry Greb
8 Benny Leonard
9 Sugar Ray Leonard
10 Pernell Whitaker

LOL

that's funny, an idiot gave me a ton of ****, because I held Leonard closer to Whitaker, Jones Jr., Mayweather Jr. than to Robinson, Duran, Armstrong, Ali (literally) glad to see Ring Mag agrees with me

(BTW shouldnt Ezzard Charles be there, too?)

[Sin City]

I don't agree with that list, they seem to lack sound criteria for placing fighters. their methodology is put some names in a hat and draw.

You know more then the boxing historians Ring Magazine has rate fighters??
Lemme guess.. Your saying that cus Mayweather isn't on there?

[Sin City]

LOL

that's funny, an idiot gave me a ton of ****, because I held Leonard closer to Whitaker, Jones Jr., Mayweather Jr. than to Robinson, Duran, Armstrong, Ali (literally) glad to see Ring Mag agrees with me

(BTW shouldnt Ezzard Charles be there, too?)

Here is their list... keep in mind that it was made in 2002
80 best fighters of the last 80 years p4p
1. Sugar Ray Robinson
2. Henry Armstrong
3. Muhammad Ali
4. Joe Louis
5. Roberto Duran
6. Willie Pep
7. Harry Greb
8. Benny Leonard
9. Sugar Ray Leonard
10. Pernell Whitaker
11. Carlos Monzon
12. Rocky Marciano
13. Ezzard Charles
14. Archie Moore
15.
Sandy Saddler
16. Jack Dempsey
17. Marvin Hagler
18. Julio Cesar Chavez
19. Eder Jofre
20. Alexis Arguello
21. Barney Ross
22. Evander Holyfield
23. Ike Williams
24. Salvador Sanchez
25. George Foreman
26. Kid Gavilian
27. Larry Holmes
28. Mickey Walker
29. Ruben Olivares
30. Gene Tunney
31. **** Tiger
32. Fighting Harada
33. Emile Griffith
34. Tony Canzoneri
35. Aaron Pryor
36. Pascual Perez
37. Miguel Canto
38. Manuel Ortiz
39. Charley Burley
40. Carmen Basilio
41. Michael Spinks
42. Joe Frazier
43. Khaosai Galaxy
44. Roy Jones Jr.
45. Tiger Flowers
46. Panama Al Brown
47. Kid Chocolate
48. Joe Brown
49. Tommy Loughran
50. Bernard Hopkins
51. Felix Trinidad
52. Jake LaMotta
53. Lennox Lewis
54. Wilfredo Gomez
55. Bob Foster
56. Jose Napoles
57. Billy Conn
58. Jimmy McLarnin
59. Pancho Villa
60. Carlos Ortiz
61. Bob Montgomery
62. Freddie Miller
63. Benny Lynch
64. Beau Jack
65. Azumah Nelson
66. Eusebio Pedroza
67. Thomas Hearns
68. Wilfred Benitez
69. Antonio Cervantes
70. Ricardo Lopez
71. Sonny Liston
72. Mike Tyson
73. Vicente Saldivar
74. Gene Fullmer
75. Oscar De La Hoya
76. Carlos Zarate
77. Marcel Cerdan
78. Flash Elorde
79. Mike McCallum
80. Harold Johnson

[Hydro]

stop making excuses. you can always spot a duran groupie by the type of excuses they make for him.

1. duran was a party guy
2. duran didn't train properly
3. duran started at lightweight
4. duran was short
5. duran broke a nail
6. duyran wasn't quick enough
7. duran wasn't strong enough
8. duran needed more time to train.
9. duran started at lightweight

and the whining goes on and on. duran's accomplishments don't measure up to what ray accomplished in his brief career. when you create a thread about who is better make sure you know each fighters history.

Because I am not going to whine about ray leonard's loses each one being legit. if he hadn't been on ******* maybe he could have given terry norris and camacho a better fight. be that as it may camacho and norris deserve full credit because if ray had won he would have gotten credit. same applies to duran stop making excuses and except that he wasn't the invincible hands of stone everyone likes to try and hype up.

I NEVER made an excuse for Duran, being lazy and whatnot. Name ONE quote where I made an excuse for Duran's laziness. His outside-the-ring habits are HIS fault, and detracts from his legacy. Just like Leonard's inactivity (the main reason I rank him below Duran) hurts his.

What does Leonard being in his prime in 1980, and Hagler not being prime in 1987, have do with making excuses for Duran's laziness?

Are you arguing that Hagler was prime in 1987?

Hagler was slowly slipping for awhile (probably the Roldan fight), and Leonard would be the first to admit that he chose to fight Hagler when he saw signs of slippage against Mugabi.

You can talk all you want about "Duran groupies", but I don't especially like Duran or Leonard. I just think what Duran did in the 70s mainly puts him on the top of the fab 4 for a whole career. Activity level is important IMO in ranking fighters.

[wmute]

Thank you Sin City

Charles was not very far I see.

I think he deserves more but the exact placement of someone on those lists are opinions of course.

I get the feeling that they wanted Archie Moore high and they just put Charles 1 notch above him, because they could not do otherwise being that they are 3-0. Everyone loves Moore and they often forget about Charles.

[Sin City]

that's two more then what duran had. duran didn't defend any title outside of 135 and the reason why was because he wasn't good enough to defend the titles he won.





stop making excuses. you can always spot a duran groupie by the type of excuses they make for him.

1. duran was a party guy
2. duran didn't train properly
3. duran started at lightweight
4. duran was short
5. duran broke a nail
6. duyran wasn't quick enough
7. duran wasn't strong enough
8. duran needed more time to train.
9. duran started at lightweight

and the whining goes on and on. duran's accomplishments don't measure up to what ray accomplished in his brief career. when you create a thread about who is better make sure you know each fighters history.

Because I am not going to whine about ray leonard's loses each one being legit. if he hadn't been on ******* maybe he could have given terry norris and camacho a better fight. be that as it may camacho and norris deserve full credit because if ray had won he would have gotten credit. same applies to duran stop making excuses and except that he wasn't the invincible hands of stone everyone likes to try and hype up.

It IS fact that Duran started at a smaller weight.. What he did moving up all those weight classes and going up against the best not many can do! And it is fact that they rushed him into the rematch knowing he wasn't fully recovered.. wether they actually were injecting him with hormones is unknown but Duran had way too much pride to just quit like that for no reason.

[Hydro]

It IS fact that Duran started at a smaller weight.. What he did moving up all those weight classes and going up against the best not many can do! And it is fact that they rushed him into the rematch knowing he wasn't fully recovered.. wether they actually were injecting him with hormones is unknown but Duran had way too much pride to just quit like that for no reason.

Well it's not just that Duran started out lighter, but that he spent a good deal of time there. It's not like DLH who spent a year or so @ 135, but Duran spent a good 5 to 6 years as lightweight champion, and was arguably the greatest ever there. At a traditional weight class.

But Duran ballooining up in weight between the Leonard fights is his own fault. I give Leonard credit, he still signed for an immediate rematch to a guy who beat him.

Some guys wait until the other guy loses first, or shows real vulernability, before rematching them.

[guzi815]

You know more then the boxing historians Ring Magazine has rate fighters??
Lemme guess.. Your saying that cus Mayweather isn't on there?

Somebody got owned with this statement!