Are we high? How can this make you a P4P?

[DiegoFuego]

Are the Spurs not the best NBA team? Because they beat everyone easily and never even break a sweat. They are boring, but they win. Hence, they are the best.

Mayweather is the San Antonio Spurs of boxing.

[freedom213]

you didn't mention corrales... i wonder why
castillo we shall have to see how the hatton fight goes
zab beat the man at ww even if it was corry spinks
oscar has only lost to top competion except for felix sturm....
and pbf is natural at 115-130 he moved up for $$$ don't forget that he is 4 weight classes above where he should be that is why he moves so...
tell manny p to move up 4 weight classes or jmm, morrales, or berrera (sp)
then tell then to stand and trade

pacman's first fight he weighed 106 pounds, Mayweather is an excellent fighter but try not to take down manny's own achievements to make a bogus point. plus manny has beaten 3 legends, well 2 if you dont count marquez but still.

[freedom213]

The fact of the matter is, outside of DLH and judah, one must split hairs to find fights worthy of mention in PBF's career.

The problem between the PBF fans and the PBF haters is they both think boxing is something completely different.

Many, not all, but many PBF haters seem to be expecting him to be A stand and trade KO artins and that it's his responsibility to entertain the crowd. Not true.

The PBF fans, seem to be under the delusion that a boxers job is to do nothing but win, and because PBF keeps winning (against arguably bland competition) he is a master Boxer. Wrong once more, on both counts.


Consider the following:

Boxing is a form of self defence, correct? It wasn't created as a game, like footbal or basketball, hence it's categorization of a combat sport.

This means that the ultimate goal of boxing has nothing to do with 'points' or 'winning a decision'. The ultimate goal is to incapacitate, kill, or otherwise stop your opponent from fighting you. Don't believe me? Then why is it that initial boxing matches had infinite rounds, if not because of the goal of a KO?

This is the reason for emphasis on evasion. Boxers aren't meant to spend minutes at a time retreating. They are meant to use their abilities to keep the opponent in range to attack them while not getting hit. This is why the famous addadge is "hit and not get hit", not the other way around.

The best and purest example of True boxing comes from Pernell 'sweet pea' whitaker. A fighter with so much boxing skill, he actually stood in front of fighters and dodged entire combinations at a time, usually taking the oppurtunity to land quite a few good shots of his own.

PBF by comparison, usually spends most of his time turtling up on the ropes, using his blistering footwork to stay out of range of his opponent. He then uses the same speed to dart in, score points, and dart out. This, due to it's highly ineffective amount of damage and lack of using any real boxing skill to create openings, can not be defined as boxing. This would be more properly described as a game of tag.

Now to the mayweather fans, if thats what you enjoy, fine. Lots of people like tag. I have a relative that won a ribbon at a picnic for playing tag. It's fine, for a childs game. What you PBF fans must realize, is that for the rest of us boxing fans, we want to see an actual boxing match. We want to see masters of the art of boxing use their skills to try to destroy each other, while evading incoming blows. So please excuse those who hate PBF if they feel tricked for paying to watch tag. PPVs are expensive, and no one likes being stuck with a product that doesn't fulfill it's ultimate purpose.

And to the PBF haters, try to remember that somehow, PBF fans have found a way to find enjoyment in PBFs fights. While you PBF haters may feel this is the physical equivalent of getting water from a rock or finding a needle in a haystack, PBF fans love their boy through anything and everything, and actual talent really doesn't matter, because they found something to enjoy about him. Just try to smile and nod, and generally humor them as they pretend to know what their talking about. You should be happy anyway, he's retired, after all. Just pray it stays that way.

perfectly put! If there is one thing that can clearly be understood by people on both sides here it is that fans of floyd enjoy the no risk, style that Floyd has gone to recently, I say recently because even at 140 he was a different boxer who would take some risks to really trully win the fight in everyone's eyes. People that dislike Floyds new fighting style all pretty much agree that they are not impressed with backpedaling defense, potshotting offense and effective but boring rope a dope D. They dont think Floyd will ever prove he is atg or even close by fighting this way. Neither side will change the others mind so lets all agree to disagree and hope we eventually see Floyd return as the floyd of old or stay retired and live on his accolades and bling. I just always wanted to throw that banana thing in there its been ****in wit me a while now.

[Pandaman64]

this was arguably the stpuidest **** i have read on boxingscene forum in the history of posts i have read on boxingscene forum. i read the first sentenece and my intial thought was that this was just another hate post about floyd. then, i read your 2nd sentence, and i thought okay, maybe he's going somewhere, even though it was pretty obvious that floyd fans and haters view boxing in different ways, so you didn't even have to post that, because this is far from a problem. actually, it is good to view boxing in different ways, it shows boxing as an artform, and more than a one-dimensional sport.

i read your 3rd sentence, and i agree with you, and i added to that(in my mind of course) that pbf haters base their anger off of his outside personality and their opinions on his career stems from that, not all haters, but many.

i read your 4th sentence, and i can respect this argument, but i don't feel this way at all, but it's perception on your part, and that's fine. coming from a boxing fan, a boxer himself, and a lover of boxing, i view boxing as an artform. i view boxing as a battle between two warriors who use their skills to win a fight. why do anything competitive and that involves contact if you don't want to win? it doesn't make since. i also appreciate two warriors giving their best at what they do to win. that is entertaining for me.

your next two points were pretty fair, but the initial boxing matches haven't been around for over centuries have they? how can you argue this but just a few sentences prior make a claim that floyd haters seem to think that boxing is all about standing and trading and being ko artisans, and then make this claim that the intial boxing matches involved incapactitating, killing, or stopping your opponents, thus the term combat sport. so, after reading this claim, i couldn't wait to read your next thought.

after reading your next few thoughts about evasion and pernell whitaker and floyd most of the time turtling up against the ropes, using his blistering footwork, i laughed because how can he have blistering footwork up against the ropes genius? he can't, he has to either block, or use his upperbody movement. floyd has blistering footwork as you call it in the center of the ring. you go on to talk about real boxing skills, like you know what "real" boxing skills are. whitaker was a true boxer right? did he not dip and dodge punches like floyd mayweather who he is often compared to? did he not counterpunches and potshot like floyd does. did he not use for the lack of a better word, blistering footwork? yes, he did. you want to know how i know, because my fighting style is like both pernell's and floyd's and i have all of their fights, and i have watched in in depth. so after reading your nobel peace novel about basically nothing up to this point, i decided to go even
further, because it got easier and easier to make criticisms about your post.

i read your last 2 paragraphs and they went hand and hand and pretty much summed up your whole arguement and of cousre my initial assumption about your post. this was just another floyd hate thread, and that's it. all of your history talk about killing, incapacitating and more boringness went out the window and the little credibilty you had to begin with died with your post after reading your final comments. you talk about floyd playing tag as if he doesn't have knckouts on his record. you think he plays tag, then you should be able to take him right? anyone can win at tag. you want knockouts, killings, and incapacitations in boxing. you're just a pbf hater like you went on to claim, i'll give you that. you could have spared us the bull**** logic and opened your post with, "i'm a pbf hater." that would have saved you from this response and emabarrassment. but, you chose to bore us with hatred like many others on here. but, never fear, "true"(there goes that word again) boxing fans like myself are here to set you, the "haters" straight with real logic and not contradicting remarks like you made throughout your post.

respond to this logically like you did in your post and i'll be happy to continue further. pbftxrs signing off.

First let me thank you for reading my entire post. Most forum goers don't do that.

Due to the long nature of your post (which is probly my own fault) I might not it all of your points/questions. Let me know if I miss any.

1.) Your probably right about floyd haters, PBFs out of the ring attitude can't be making them happy. I neglected to mention that, thank you for doing so.

2) While I can respect a boxers desire to win, he should always, ALWAYS strive for more. This is one of floyds problems. He had a tendency to settle for simply winning a fight on points and outscoring, which is the goal of an ameture. This trend became more evident as floyd moved up in weight, towards the end of his career.

3) I seem to have miscommunicated what initial boxing was. Dodging was important, as was all the evasive skills. Those are the foundation for any fighting style, boxing or otherwise. The GOAL however, was for a KO. While standing and trading leads to faster and more brutal KOs, this isn't what boxing was or should be. Boxing is the art of not getting hit while trying to KO your opponent.

4) I appear to have stated PBF's style incorrectly. Allow me to clarify. PBF uses hit footspeed to dart in and out, spending most of his time outside of his opponents range. When he gets caught on the ropes (usually due to him being winded a bit) he turtles up completely, using the classic cross-guard stance. He spends FAR more time outside of range than whitaker ever did, and uses less evasion than pernell because of it. And while you make the valid (and missed by me) point of pernell also having good footwork, the way it was used was completely different than PBF. PBF uses his footwork to dart in and out (mostly out) of range. Pernell mostly used side to side movement, to give himself angles so he could hit his opponent while not getting hit. Pernell, at the very least, was trying to hurt his opponent the entire fight, and didn't get hit much doing it. PBF on the other hand, puts damage on the backburner.

5) I don't want killings in boxing. That was an unfortunate side effect of the initial rules, so that is why that was mentioned. Sorry if it left a bad taste in your mouth, but that is what a combat style is created for. To hurt, and KO, your opposition. My point about the goal of boxing being a KO still stands.

6) PBF does have a lot of KOs. If anyone he ever KOd was even in his league it would be very impressive. The fact is the only time he ever KOs his opponent is when he's ridiculously faster and stronger. Having to dodge pitifully low amounts of pathetically slower punches doesn't make PBF a master boxer. It makes him a fast, strong boxer. Even then, this only applies at 140 lbs or less.

7) You believe yourself to be a "true" boxing fan because you can appreciate PBFs fights? Wow. I thought I was the only arrogant prick here. Seriously, that mentality is what threatens boxing as a sport. You said you believe that it's good to view boxing in different ways. Well, it's a tad hypocritical to say that your way is the way the 'true' fans should go, don't you think so?

All this said, It is my firm belief that PBF has the most wasted talent on any boxer in recent memory (perhaps second only to roy jones). He never really strove to further perfect his craft, because after all, fans like yourself are already calling him one of the greatest of all time. He got all the credit in the world, without reaching his full potential. Truly a boxing Tragedy.

If there were any points of yours I missed, let me know. I'll be checking tomorrow. Laters.

[Eno]

You guys are putting down Mayweather fans for liking his style because its a no risk style and acting as if its bad. Maybe they just really do like that style of fighting. Not they are ******* or some ****.

[TheGR8TESTOAT]

oscar's worse! all the good people he has on his resume he LOST to!

[TheGR8TESTOAT]

atleast floyd never took a dive as oscar did in the hopkins fight

[JAHamilton77]

WoW another Floyd Hate thread. How original

[Technical_Skill]

Floyd beat bums who are fighting even lesser fighters today. Except for Judah.

Gatti is fighting Alfonso Gomez. LMAO!

Baldomir? Old and in a retirement home. Should have been retired about 6 years ago.

Judah. Destroyed by Cotto.

De La Hoya. Old rich bastard got richer by fighting the running man. He knew this fight was no risk to him. Should stay retired.
ODLH and PBF could fight for 60 rounds and both would come out with no more than a black eye.
****ing thieves.

Sharmba Mitchell OLD.

Henry Bruseles? Who knows this motha ****a?

DeMarcus Corley, destroyed by Cotto.

Phillip N'dou? Philip and Who? Who the **** is this cat? Is this the guy that is fighting Maligf@ggi?

Victoriano Sosa, destroyed by Cotto.

Jose Luis Castillo II got owned by Floyd yes.

Jose Luis Castillo 1 Beat Mayweather but they gave the fight to the little monkey.

This legacy is a joke.

Where are the Haglers? The Hearns? The Durans? on Floyds record?

Did Floyd unify anything?
What division did he clean up?

Pound for Pound?

**** me.

This guy needs to lay of the Pedigree chum, seriously,

I know its those meaty chunks in jelly but it reverses brain cell development.

[The Noose]

I believe a good percentage of PBF fans like him just because je is undeafeted. And considered p4p the best.
Like supporting which ever team is winning.

If he lost a couple of fights, they would no longer support him.

Also its his image as a loud mouth arrogant prick. Again, he gets away with it because he is undefeated.
As soon as he loses, the Pretty Boy Floyd band wagon will become a whole lot lighter.