Teddy Atlas: The athletes: boxers, fighters, and others, are not heroes. Soldiers are

[kryo]

What about all the kids that have been forced to leaves their homes in order to not die in the crossfire? Thousands of Iraqi's flee to Syria alone every month, not to mention those that immigrate to other parts of Europe. Do they send thank you notes to soldiers for destroying their homes? What about the 655,000 dead Iraqi's do they send thank you notes to the US soldiers? What about all those who have been maimed in the crossfire, do they send thank you notes? In 2003 at the start of the occupation there was a population roughly of 38million people in Iraq. If thousands have fled every month for nearly 2 years and over 1/2 a million have been killed, how long until no Iraqi calls Iraq home?

I never said we were there for no reason. I stated very plainly the reason there is a US military presense in Iraq. MONEY! Not because the administration ever wanted to help, if that was the case we would have a military presense in the Sudan rather than Iraq. We would be preventing mass **** and murder in the Darfur region. Did you even open the link I posted? I don't think you did, otherwise you might understand my anger that we did not help those who needed it before it escalated into the terrible thing it has become. Since they actually need help, what with the genocide and all. But hey, it isn't like our government actually cares about the extermination of a people. It is all about the green.

When did I ever say anything about Christianity? WTF does that have to do with this conversation? Oh and there is a reason the founding fathers came up with the first *********. They saw it as very necessary to be able to speak out against the government.

Congratulations, you know your rights. Now who protects those rights from people who would rather kill you or take them away then let you speak your mind? Not the radical jihadists. And don't lecture me about the Darfur situation, I'm barely out of highschool and I've donated over 500 dollars to Doctors Without Borders and am apart of Amnesty International. I just don't understand how many god damn, and sorry for using this word, *******, come to Amnesty and claim that what were doing in Iraq is 100% wrong. No, it isn't wrong. If it was wrong the American people would not have put up with it for this long. 655,000 dead Iraqi's you say and how many do you believe are civilians, probably more than 50%, right? How many do you believe died before the war? Saddam could kill anyone he wanted, anywhere he wanted, anyway he wanted, and he DID! I know this is old but, "On March 16, 1988 Iraqi troops, on orders from Saddam to stop a Kurdish uprising, attacked the Kurdish town of Halabjah with a mix of poison gas and nerve agents killing 5,000 people, mostly women and children." Stuff like this happened daily! I don't know about you but I would rather die a free man then live under persecution (to that magnitude). Also, something I did not mention above, 3,455 American troops have died as of today in Iraq (Roughly 3.5 years) while 42,116 people die a year due to auto accidents in America and 35% of those are teenagers from 15-18. 54,700 American troops died in World War Two which lasted a little longer then the Iraq conflict. 3,455 is nothing.

[1bad65]

Dude, Catherine lives in California. She is a lost cause.

[guzi815]

As a long time former soldier and boxer I feel more qualified than most to comment on this.

How is a boxer a hero??? A boxer can be brave and courageous yes but a hero???

Boxers in the main are in the sport for money and glory, that is not heroic. Boxers face the risk of injury and very rarely death to attain this glory and the money that comes with it. There are strict guidelines and rules set in place to protect boxers and the chance of severe injury or worse is rare.
Add into that the fame and adulation that comes with the glory of being a great boxer, as I said being a boxer is far from heroic.

A hero is someone who risks their lives and well being for a cause or for someone else, a hero has not chosen to be in direct harm although they understand the risks that come with their profession, they have no rules or guidelines to protect them, they receive limited pay and little or no adulation.

Soldiers, Sailors and Airmen can be hero's, so can Firefighters, Police, Paramedic's etc etc but boxers definitely not!

So I agree with Atlas.

Great post brother! Some folks just don't understand what it is to serve.....for "HONOR" and country. You can't put a price tag on that. A boxer who lives to fight another day... is a warrior. The soldiers who gave all on the battle field....those are our true heroes.

SGT Guzman
20th Engineer Brigade
AIRBORNE!

[El Jesus]

Dude, Catherine lives in California. She is a lost cause.

God forbid people actually think for themselves out here, come on man. Thats rediculous, you go on about how you dont like people stereotyping people who are into MMA and all that other ****, yet you disrespect an entire state whos group of people are known for starting some of the most influential civil movements in the country (anti war/black panthers etc). Kill that noise. I guess to you anyone questioning the status quo is a lost cause?

[ELPacman]

I agree with Teddy pretty much. Boxers fight for their own wealth and put on a show for the people. The bottomline is they got into the buisness to make money. A lot of the soldiers signed up for patriotic reasons and I know during 9/11, a lot signed up to whoop some ass regardless of pay. <---That was said in the weakest form possible but gets the point. I never consider any boxer really a hero. I know some people who would. Guys that have gone into epic stature, Ali, Pacquiao, Chavez. People like them that have put their countries on the map big because of their ring efforts. Them who grew up in terrid conditions, fought to do better, all while keeping their respective country infront and as the drive to win. They can be heroes to their people, but not much to just fans of them. Idol is more the word, but we can't confuse that.

[Catherine]

I just don't understand how many god damn, and sorry for using this word, *******, come to Amnesty and claim that what were doing in Iraq is 100% wrong. No, it isn't wrong. If it was wrong the American people would not have put up with it for this long. 655,000 dead Iraqi's you say and how many do you believe are civilians, probably more than 50%, right? How many do you believe died before the war?

You know, we did not go to Iraq because Hussein was killing his people. That was an after thought after all of the other reasons that the Admin gave turned out to be false. Those numbers were compiled by what up until it realised those stats was considered a reliable scientific source, DOCTORS. Numbers are from The Lancet(a medical magazine) their death toll estimates have always been acceptable before. Now they researched and found a number higher than anyone expected and suddenly they are no longer a reliable source. "The Lancet study is sound science. The study followed a strict, widely accepted methodology to arrive at its sobering conclusion. The study is being attacked not on scientific grounds but for ideological reasons. People may not realize that The Lancet is the world’s most prestigious medical journal. Prior to publication, the Iraq study was subjected to a thorough peer review by specialists in the field of epidemiology." ~Source of quote It is a death estimate from March 2003 to July 2006. Before the invasion of our military it was an estimated 143,000 deaths per year.

"• Estimated 654,965 additional deaths in Iraq between March 2003 and July 2006

• Majority of the additional deaths (91.8 percent) caused by violence

• Males aged 15-44 years accounted for 59 percent of post-invasion violent deaths

• About half of the households surveyed were uncertain who was responsible for the death of a household member

• The proportion of deaths attributed to coalition forces diminished in 2006 to 26 percent. Between March 2003 and July 2006, households attributed 31 percent of deaths to the coalition

• Mortality data from the 2006 study reaffirms 2004 estimates by Hopkins researchers and mirrors upward trends measured by other organizations

• Researchers recommend establishment of an international body to calculate mortality and monitor health of people living in all regions affected by conflict" ~Source of quote

Anyhow, I think I am done here. No point trying to tell the lot of you anything.

Dude, Catherine lives in California. She is a lost cause.

**** off.

[1bad65]

God forbid people actually think for themselves out here, come on man. Thats rediculous, you go on about how you dont like people stereotyping people who are into MMA and all that other ****, yet you disrespect an entire state whos group of people are known for starting some of the most influential civil movements in the country (anti war/black panthers etc). Kill that noise. I guess to you anyone questioning the status quo is a lost cause?

Yeah, California. The state that had BLACKOUTS because the idiots they elected did not build enough power plants.

[Gareth Ivanovic]

3,455 is nothing.

That's still 3,455 soldiers to many. Those are brothers, sisters, fathers, mothers, husbands and wives etc. of many americans. I know it's a small number compared to other wars, but it's not like their lives didn't mean anything. I know you probably didn't mean their lives meant nothing, but saying 3,455 deaths is nothing makes the rest of your arguement pretty weak.

[guzi815]

As a Veteran, someone whos actually been in the desert and fought in the war on terror im going to tell you right now, most "heroes' joined the military not so they could defend freedom or any way of life. They did it for oppurtunity, the military is a job, being in the infantry is a job, being a logistics coordinator is a job, being a load master is a job etc etc.

I didint join the military because i was patriotic, i joined because it was a great way for me to leave my home and get money for college. If the military was all about freedom and defending the country, they wouldnt offer so many incentives to join in the first place. The military is all about having enough bodies to flex political muscle while providing a purpose and mission to have a reason for you to be in.

I dont feel sorry for any military personell fighting in iraq because you volunteer for that ****, nobody was ****ing drafted like in Vietnam, you signed up, your being paid, and you do your job. Its not a heroes life to do that ****, you signed up to fulfill someone elses political agenda, period.


I love this country and i was willing to give my life for it, but that doesnt mean i dont know the reality of who i am. As a soldier i was the lowest of the low, sent to do the dirty work no politician would dare do, hence why George Bush never flew over the sunny skies of vietnam.

By fighting in Afgahnistan i didint defend my "way of life" i did my job because thats what i was asked to do. Defending my way of life would be more like if i was living in ********* throwing rocks at an isreali tank, or living in Sudan trying to flee from people attempting to ethnically cleanse me. Thats defending my way of life. Our war overseas is all about flexing political muscle. And its not going very well at the moment.

And i love how people bring up "9-11" as if american lives somehow mean more than the rest of the world who live that **** everyday. Iraq has had about 9,000 9-11's yet you shed no tears. I think people like you are the reasons why wars like this are allowed to happen in the first place.

my brother! I even had to read your post twice! It was like day-ja-voo, or how ever you spell it, but i feel you. 250 days in hot blazing desert, so I know exactly what you're talking about.

Drill Sergeant always said...."no one made you sign that contract, you came here cause you wanted to". Like you, I enlisted when it was "BE ALL YOU CAN BE", where it took me 5 years to make Sergeant because of point system that caters to combat MOS'. A new Soldier, 20 years old, just having 2 years of Military experience, is promoted to NCO status! That, IMHO, is setting up a young Sergeant for failure. Like the the old saying..."wisdom comes with age". Two years is insufficient time to have received vital training.

The other day I saw an E2 with two rows of service ribbons! At first I thought he must have just gotten de-moted...but when I asked him, his time in service was only 8 months! WTFO!

It is no wonder the The Commander in Chief gives the Military a pay raise just about every other January. And DA is offering such huge incentives to keep folks from ETS. The fact is, 80% of Enlisted Soldiers just do one tour (4 years) and get out....It's all about that GI Bill, never mind that being patriotic business.

Like you brother,...I had to eat ****.....AND LIKE IT! The Military is a great place. Crossed the Atlantic 14 times and through the Army, I've watched the Sun rise from 15 different Countries. Learned a great deal, saw the world, jumped out of perfectly good airplanes....but it will never take the place of Family. In the Army, it's "Duty First".

But you know what I say? "Duty First,...Family ALWAYS"!!!

[guzi815]

I think this speech was bull****. I mean I agree that the soldiers are heroes, but boxers and fighters are too. I felt kind of betrayed when Teddy said that boxers aren't heroes. Boxers are heroes. Look at all the heroes like DLH, Erik Morales, Barrera, and so many others who conquered impossible obstacles with courage and bravery, just like the soldiers. It would have been better had he said that both are heroes. How did you feel about him saying this?

Alright "Hitman", you have a right to your own opinion, but check this out....

SOLDIER BOXER

1) After training...
a) misses family, birthdays, etc., a) kisses his wife good-nite
sleeps under 118+ reads bed time story to
degree heat, shakes boots for scorpions kids. sleeps in bed, air
camel spiders, eaten alive by mosquitos. condition.
2) goes on month after month with little or 2) eats whenever, takes
no sleep, eating whenever possible, just saw few weeks off of train-
his best friend take a direct hit, and bleeds to attends best friends
death. funeral in pin-stripes.
3) never knows if "today"..will be the day 3) has a greater chance
of being struck by
lighting.
4) takes a whole month, sometimes 2, even 4) has unlimited nights &
3 months to get letter from family and weekend minutes.
friends.
5) inhales toxic fumes, smells dead bodies, 5) sees it TV while eating
watches dogs "eat" those dead, rotting ham & cheese sand-
bodies. wich.
6) wakes-up to...."IN COMING"!!!!! 6) wakes up to "good
morning sweetheart
want eggs for
breakfast?"
7) just threw himself on top of some one 7)says "daaamn!, sucks
to be that ****er!
8) makes $100 dollars, they take back $99! 8) $,$$$,$$$

Ay man this list can go on & on....please don't take it personal as I don't mean to offend anyone, but brother...please that that Hero stuff for the guys that never made it home. peace!

SGT Guzman
20th Engineer Brigade
AIRBORNE!