Calzaghe or Hopkins: Whose 20 Defenses Were Better?

[ßringer]

The Bringer - You could say the same thing about Lacy ?

I suppose, but Lacy was favored even more heavily than Johnson was against Hopkins. I never bit the bait on either occasion though. But Calzaghe may well have derailed Lacy's career, though I never saw it as a "career" in the first place.

[Jim Jeffries]

Not at the time they fought. At the time they fought Glen Johnson was looked upon as "the next big star" in the division. He was favored to dethrone Hopkins easily, then Hopkins turned the heat up on him and he was never the same. Don't fault Bernard for derailing the ****er's career.

Wasn't it another ATG Jones who said "They say I ain't fight nobody, I just make 'em look like they ain't nobody."? That rule applies to Hopkins/Johnson perfectly.

Hold up. Calzaghe beats "the next big thing" and current world champ who had defended his title several times already in Lacy, and he doesn't deserve credit for "ending" Lacy. But Hopkins is supposed to get full credit for beating a guy that never even challenged for a title?

The Jones that kicked prime Hopkins' a$$? That Jones?

[sparked_85]

History will look very favourably on Joe's Win against Kessler! I'm almost certain.

[ßringer]

The Jones that kicked prime Hopkins' a$$? That Jones?

I wouldn't say he "kicked Bernard's ass" by any means. And I also wouldn't say Bernard was in his prime when they met, I also wouldn't say Jones was in his at the time either.

I never knew losing a decision against another universally recognized "All Time Great" was such a terrible blow. If that's true, why is Duran on the top 100? He lost to 3 of the 4 ATG's he faced off with.

[Jim Jeffries]

I wouldn't say he "kicked Bernard's ass" by any means. And I also wouldn't say Bernard was in his prime when they met, I also wouldn't say Jones was in his at the time either.

I never knew losing a decision against another universally recognized "All Time Great" was such a terrible blow. If that's true, why is Duran on the top 100? He lost to 3 of the 4 ATG's he faced off with.

Oh, I figured since unproven, untested Johnson was such a huge win......nevermind. Fact is Johnson didn't reach his prime until about 6 years after Bernard fought him, just the way Bernard didn't reach his prime until long after Jones (and likewise.) But to say Johnson at the time was a bigger win than Kessler is a little strange in my opinion.

[warp1432]

Hopkins' Opponents:

Segundo Mercado (For the vacant IBF title)
Steve Frank
Joe Lipsey
William Bo James
John David Jackson
Glen Johnson
Andrew Council
Simon Brown
Robert Allen (three times)
Antwun Echols (twice)
Syd Vanderpool
Keith Holmes (WBC Champion)
Tito Trinidad (WBA Champion)
Carl Daniels
Morrade Hakkar
William Joppy
Oscar De La Hoya (WBO Champion)
Howard Eastman

Noteable people on Hopkins list, imo.

[macman]

With the Kessler win, think it makes it just about even.

Joe's got more fluff than Hopkins, but think that Calzaghe might have the better wins against legitimate top guy's in the same division than Hopkins.


A closer look.

Calzaghe's opponents:

- Chris Eubank (For the vacant WBO title) - latter stage of his career, but still a dangerous, skilled fighter.
- Branko Sobot
- Juan Carlos Gimenez Ferreyra
- Robin Reid - prime Reid was championship material - one of Calzaghe's lesser performances but still edged it (if barely).
- Rick Thornberry - probably Calzaghe's worst performance. Thornberry's a tough guy, but no way should of lasted the distance. The guy cannot box (& this is from a fellow Aussie).
- David Starie
Omar Sheika - impressive one-sided demolition job on a pretty decent contender.
- Richie Woodhall
- Mario Veit (twice) - was actually pretty highly rated originally. A skilled, technical boxer with an undefeated record the first time around. Calzaghe demolished him in about a minute the first time around - 5 pretty one sided rounds the next. Think he went without defeat from then on until very recently.
- Will McIntyre
- Charles Brewer - former champ that lost his title via dubious decision to Ottke. Came to fight in great shape & gave a hell of a performance, but probably only won 3 rounds - Calzaghe was that good.
- Miguel Angel Jimenez
- Tocker Pudwill
- Byron Mitchell - another former champ that lost his title via an even more dubious decision to Ottke. Wild affair. Puts Calzaghe down for the first time in his career, then gets stopped in the same round trying to finish him.
- Mger Mkrtchian
- Kabary Salem
- Evans Ashira
- Jeff Lacy (IBF Champion) - the highly hyped destroyer - one of the most completely one-sided thrashings ever seen in a unification match.
- Sakio Bika - solid contender, if a little limited.
- Peter Manfredo, Jr.
- Mikkel Kessler - best for last. Kessler's a complete fighter - strength, power, skill, top level experience. Joe just too good down the stretch.



Hopkins' Opponents:

- Segundo Mercado (For the vacant IBF title) - dangerous puncher with some skills. Hopkins timing just too good for him.
- Steve Frank
- Joe Lipsey - good puncher with some solid skills. Lack of top level experience & bad stamina, though. Hopkin's too smart, too sharp.
- William Bo James
- John David Jackson - good fighter. Haven't seen the fight so can't really comment, but good win.
- Glen Johnson - top contender at the time, but hadn't really fought anyone of note before this & it showed. Hopkins put on a masterclass. Johnson looked totally out of his depth, & you'd never of guessed he'd go to become one of top light-heavy's from this performance.
PS. The commentator's on the fight weren't hyping Johnson at all, & thought Hopkins was the firm favourite from what I remember. Gil Clancy was one.
- Andrew Council
- Simon Brown - wasn't he a former former welterweight champ?
- Robert Allen (three times) - solid contender, but 3 times? The WBO should cop a fair bit of heat for some of Calzaghe's mandatory's, but this is pretty damn bad as well.
- Antwun Echols (twice) - dangerous puncher, if a little limited. Best win was against Brewer, when Brewer hammered him repeatedly to the canvas, but Echol's somehow had enough left to KO Brewer when he left himself open going for the kill. Pretty sure it was a fair bit after these bouts, though.
Hopkins too sharp, too skilled. Made Echol's look like an amateur the 2nd time round.
- Syd Vanderpool
- Keith Holmes (WBC Champion) - solid fighter - solid win.
- Tito Trinidad (WBA Champion) - Hopkins biggest win. Trinidad up from Welterweight originally, but as he showed against Joppy, his power came up with him. Hopkins in a pretty well perfect display of skill & boxing intelligence.
- Carl Daniels
- Morrade Hakkar - makes Calzaghe's defences against the likes Sabot & Pudwill look almost respectable.
- William Joppy - good fighter, former champ. Fought a ****** fight against Trinidad, trying to head to head with him, but is generally a pretty smart, skilled fighter. Hopkins put on another masterclass, winning basically every round.
- Oscar De La Hoya (WBO Champion) - future HOF fighter, but no middleweight. Should of lost the decision in his only other bout at Middle to the solid but not particularly special Sturm. Down side of his prime as well, but still skilled.
- Howard Eastman - solid, very strong contender, but seems to only have one gear. Hopkins carefully outpointed him.

---

A few more thoughts.

Hopkins reign was certainly the more consistent of the two.

Calzaghe's was marred a little from his rather average perfomance's against lesser opponents, tending to fight to the opponents level of ability, although still won pretty comfortably most of the time.

Hopkins against lesser opponents generally shredded them.

Calzaghe also never fought Reid in a rematch, & he should of.


Would probably rate Calzaghe's wins against Brewer & Mitchell slightly over Hopkins wins over Holmes & Joppy, as I'd favour them in head-to-head matches at equivalent weights.

[Guest]

Calzaghe's resume is a joke.

[Ironside]

Calzaghe's resume is a joke.

What does that make Hopkins if Calzaghe wins?

[Guest]

What does that make Hopkins if Calzaghe wins?

About 10 years past his prime.