Do you think Joe Calzaghe is ducking Kessler??

[hugh grant]

Kessler is not just another guy, the guys owns 2 of the major belt and is trying to make the best fight possible at 168, how can you not respect that.

As for Joe going after the more established guys, will I don't see it happening!

Joe can probably make more money in Europe fighting Kessler then he can fighting a guy like Winky Wright in the states!

You know i want Joe to fight Kessler as well, simply because it is a matchup i would like to see. Well if Joe dont box him maybe Froch will. That will be interesting as well.
But as i say Joe in his own mind knows what his last fights will be against. It is about cementing a legacy now with so called superfights. Yep i know Manfredo aint nothing, but i am sure Joe wants the record defences record for sure as well.

[Peder]

Yep but for everyone that gave Joe the credit he deserved there were people who were saying Lacy was overrated, especially with his last perfermance.
What i am saying is what reason has Joe to be ducking Kessler? Kessler is just another in line of opponents who is supposed to be able to beat Joe but who dont. If joe was to deal with these guys all the time he wouldnt be able to go after the established guys and acheive his own goals.

Joe got credit from the Lacy fight, but Bika and Manfredo may have put boxingfans off.

I'm not going to start a who's #1 battle, based on nothing. All I want is Kessler to be acknowledged as a strong and legit challenger, and i think HBO helped him forward last night. If JC doesn't get his US fight, I believe Kessler - Calzaghe would be appreciated by boxing fans.

"Team Kessler" says today - no surprise – They will do what HBO wants. So, it's all up to them.

[dumdane]

Yep but for everyone that gave Joe the credit he deserved there were people who were saying Lacy was overrated, especially with his last perfermance.
What i am saying is what reason has Joe to be ducking Kessler? Kessler is just another in line of opponents who is supposed to be able to beat Joe but who dont. If joe was to deal with these guys all the time he wouldnt be able to go after the established guys and acheive his own goals.

No Kessler is not just another one in a line of opponents... You make the exact same claim as mikesterious just did. So instead of repeating my response, just look it up above.

But i've got a few things to add.

Kessler is at this stage significantly more accomplished than ANY opponent on Joe's list - with the possible exception of Eubank - who was nevertheless not undefeated.
At the time of Calzaghe-Lacy, Kessler's and Lacy's achievements were about even. But since then Kessler has taken another couple of steps up the ladder. And while we've seen Lacy's limits. There's nothing to suggest we've seen Kessler's limits. Also the most respected independent rankings had Kessler ahead of Lacy all the way.
There has not been a single possible fight over Calzaghe's entire career (including Ottke, Hopkins, RJJ or whoever) that would have done more towards proving Calzaghe as undisputed, than Kessler at this stage.

[Gareth Ivanovic]

From last nights performance, I can see why Joe doesn't want to fight Kessler. I had never seen him fight, and was actually rooting for Andrade in the beginning. After a few round I was totally impressed with Kessler and became an instant fan. Joe wants those big money fights with Hopkins, Wright or Taylor. If he faces Kessler before he gets any of those fights he might lose and those fights would be out of the question. So I can see why he is ducking him. Out of all the matchups that Joe Calzaghe can be in the matchup with Kessler would be the best.

[.Mik.]

Based on what fights would you regard Froch over Andrade?
Do you think Bika and Manfredo are top 5?? I don't get it..

But, yes.. Can't wait until this joke is over, and JC hopefully takes on a real proved fighter..

I dont think that Manfredo and Bika are top 5, not at all. I'm not defending Calzaghe's choice in opponents. I have stated numerous times on here that I wish he would take the big fights and he blatantly is trying to make those big fights. I just dont think that Kessler has proven himself as being a bigger fight than either Hopkins, Wright or Taylor have so far. They have ALL faced BIG name competition and they are ALL big names themselves in America. So why shouldnt Calzaghe look towards them before he looks towards someone like Kessler? Kessler needs to fight the other credible SMW's out there and yes I do think that Froch, Bute and Lacy are more credible SMW's than Andrade. I'm not trying to belittle Kessler's achievements and I'm not suggesting that he fight all of them, but in my opinion in order to call out the best guy in the division you have to have proven yourself at least once by beating the next best guy down and I dont believe Kessler has ever done that.

Don't go to other boxing forums. I can name a few places where Calzaghe gets less respect and where the hardcore Calzaghe hugger contingent is far fewer.

The reason I post here is because its the best I've been able to find where occassionally people talk a little bit of sense. But the whole reactionary view to the past couple of days are a low point. People have been trying to find a way to discredit Calzaghe since the day he beat Jeff Lacy. Now Kessler has a one-sided victory against someone that no serious boxing fan ever considered likely to beat him suddenly HE is the guy who will take out Calzaghe and Calzaghe is ducking him. Consider this the other way around. Calzaghe beat Lacy, who was genuinely considered to be his superior. Who was the bookie's and the critic's favourite to win the fight. Calzaghe was over-the-hill, past his prime. Lacy was rated as high as you can get in the rankings...Calzaghe tortured and destroyed him. So why has Kessler's less convincing performance over someone further down the ladder boosting Kessler so high, whereas Calzaghe's domination over Lacy is now widely considered to be down to Lacy being over-hyped and exposed? Cos people want to take credit away from Calzaghe, that simple.

All we hear is talk - we've not seen any yet. And in any event - who are those fighters you call "bigger"? "bigger" in what way?

Like I've said elsewhere today. Calzaghe is trying to make fights with Hopkins, Wright or Taylor. He has made his intentions clear. He cannot exactly announce that he is going to be fighting one of these guys before he has faced Manfredo. Thats not how it works. He's using the Manfredo fight and the exposure he'll get from it to try and draw those out. Its not his fault thay they havent been interested so far. After Manfredo, if those guys dont come out to play, then yes...I agree, I'd like him to face Kessler as the next best thing and I'd be disappointed if he didnt make that fight happen. I dont really have to explain why those names are bigger than Kessler do I? They are worth more money, they get more credibility, they are higher on the P4P list...what else do they need to be considered 'bigger'?

Look over Kessler's past 5 opponents (his championship fights) Except Lucas they've all been ranked top 5 by the Ring (at time of fights). Now Kessler couldn't fight himself and neither Calzaghe nor Lacy would get anywhere near him. So in reality that has only left two options inside top five for each of those fights. Four times out of five Kessler has fought one of those two options. Lucas was just a little further down the rankings. So to say Kessler hasn't been fighting the other contenders is just BS. He's fought the best available.
Bute is a newcommer to the top - even his fans suggest he should wait another year before taking on the likes of Kessler. And to suggest Kessler should have fought Froch in order to be worthy of a shot at Calzaghe is just so plain ridiculous you have to be british to not almost break down and cry.



Has he now?
How manny undefeated has he fought?
How manny of his opponents have fought and beat five current or former WC's (with one of the four major org's) - and that excludes Mundine, who only had a WBA "regular" belt.
How manny of his opponents have lost less than 5 rounds over their entire careers (up to the date of the fight)?
How manny of his oppnents have had no less than four WC defences?
How many of those fighters have remained ranked (by the ring) just behind Calzaghe for more than three years?
How manny of those oppenent are have been regularly tipped to have a good chance of beating Calzaghe - by a wide range of boxing writers and observers?

Again, I am not belittling Kessler's achievements. But the simple fact is that he is NOT a huge name like Taylor, Hopkins, Wright. The reason he is NOT a huge name (apart from the fact that he isnt American) is because he has not yet fought anyone who boxing critics consider to be at or close to his level. Calzaghe has a number of times throughout his career and most recently with a supposedly unstoppable Jeff Lacy who was favourite to beat him. Fights with people around your ability level, against the other top guys in the division are the things that make you a big name and thats what he needs to be for him to be a worthwhile bout against Calzaghe. Without fighting those kinds of guys (the type of match that the majority on here would consider a 'pick em') he is going to look like yet another opponent that Calzaghe faces, defeats and then gets NO credit for fighting because he was yet another 'over-rated hype job'.

Yet you choose to pretend Kessler is less of a challenge than other names on Calzaghe's resume.
Obviously you WANT to believe that Calzaghe is untouchable. And you're desperately trying to close your eyes to the realities of the outside world.
So you keep pretending "Kessler is just another..." - but there are no others of that calibre on that list of yours.
All so you can keep trying to convince yourself (and others) that there's nooooo reason Calzaghe should fight Kessler. Again so you won't risk seeing your precious illussion shattered.

Please dont start the amatuer psychological assumption. We're both too smart for that. I want to see Calzaghe fight Kessler, but I want to see him fight Hopkins, Winky or Taylor more and first. Hopefully while he is defeating those, Kessler will have fought someone truly top-drawer, will have made a big name for himself to casual fans (people who dont go to discuss boxing online) and will allow the fight to be a big money fight.

come on why fight a guy like Manfredo where you can make much more money fighting the WBC and WBA champ in Kessler.

Yea Cal mentions Hopkins, Wright and Taylor but he's not fighting any of these 3 guys, also none of those 3 guys are in the Super Middleweight division, Kessler is the man he needs to fight if he wants the world to respect him.

Two sentences and whatever 'point' you have goes out of the window. Let me make this very simple for you.

1). Manfredo is worth more money to Calzaghe than Kessler.

2). THE WORLD does not yet know who Kessler ****ing is!

Actually Joe got alot of credit for beating Lacy, suddenly everyone jumped on Joe's nuts after the Lacy fight.

Yeah, and then people IMMEDIATELY started to try and discredit such a victory. "Oh Lacy was over-hyped, he was over-rated, he wasnt that good anyway". The anti-Calzaghe brigade were positively salivating at the prospect of Lacy not performing well in his next bout. Because that of course CONFIRMS via the ever-accurate triangular logic that because Lacy didnt do well in his next fight after Calzaghe, it means that Joe's tremendous and surprising (the win was surprising the the average American boxing fan. The manner of the victory was surprising to the knowledgeable boxing fan and the critics and analysts around the world) win against Lacy means NOTHING...yet that...that it might as well not have happened, it was so meaningless. Of course, they dont in anyway take into consideration the fact that Lacy may not be the same fighter/may have lost a lot of his confidence and invulnerability having had his arse tanked around the ring by Calzaghe all day. Or perhaps that the little matter of tearing his rotator cuff (a career threatening injury) during the fight might have effected his level of performance somewhat. Nay, people still to this day neglect those facts in order to try and discredit Calzaghe's victory.

Ridiculous.

[!!! Beowulf !!!]

No Kessler is not just another one in a line of opponents... You make the exact same claim as mikesterious just did. So instead of repeating my response, just look it up above.

But i've got a few things to add.

Kessler is at this stage significantly more accomplished than ANY opponent on Joe's list - with the possible exception of Eubank - who was nevertheless not undefeated.
At the time of Calzaghe-Lacy, Kessler's and Lacy's achievements were about even. But since then Kessler has taken another couple of steps up the ladder. And while we've seen Lacy's limits. There's nothing to suggest we've seen Kessler's limits. Also the most respected independent rankings had Kessler ahead of Lacy all the way.
There has not been a single possible fight over Calzaghe's entire career (including Ottke, Hopkins, RJJ or whoever) that would have done more towards proving Calzaghe as undisputed, than Kessler at this stage.

Eubank is and was more accomplished than Kessler. There is no "possible" about it.

[Run]

Haha ****ing Mikkel Kessler?

"Oh let me sit here in Welsh obscurity for years, build up my name in the hopes for a huge American showdown with Hopkins, Roy, Tarver or whomever. NOPE.
I'm going to take less money and fight some nobody from the tundra"



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[Run]

Anyone critiquing Calzaghe's record shouldn't defend Kesslers lol.

Calzaghe has done 10 times what Kessler has throughout his career.



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[Welter_Skelter]

Some people are Bitter Calzaghe proved them SOOOOOO wrong with the Lacy fight.. me thinks some people have some wounded pride..
The rest are Danes... But the fact remains Calzaghe is MORE accomplished than Kessler.. and Kessler needs Calzaghe much more than Calzaghe needs Kessler..
Calzaghe is NOT ducking Kessler in so much as he is simply not interetsted in beating the **** out of another Blown up stats straight up Euro fighter..
The man has stated for years now.. That America is his Goal..
Kessler has the wrong passport..

[SHB]

Anyone who thinks Calzaghe hasn't faced better opposition than Kessler has is living in cloud cuckoo land. Or Copenhagen.

If anyone thinks Calzaghe hasn't faced, and beaten, better and more proven opposition than Kessler then they are living in cloud cuckoo land. Or Copenhagen.

It's an ignorant insult to compare the two careers. An ignorant insult.