Top three statistical misrepresentations about Hopkins that irk me...

[Hydro]

Hopkins would have been considered an all-time great if he wasn't robbed against Taylor. Without that marquee victory over a true middleweight contender (and the future of the division), Hopkins really doesn't have any major victories. His wins over Trinidad and DLH aren't that great considering they were way above their best weights. The Trinidad win might have meant something if Winky Wright didn't completely humiliate him...

Trinidad wasn't way above his best weight. You can argue over 147 or 154, but Tito was big for those weight classes regardless, and unlike DLH, had success at 160.

Tito had just destroyed the 2nd best middleweight in the world before Hopkins schooled him. DLH got a gift against the great Felix Sturm.

It's still an excellent win even if Wright dominated him 4 years later.

Does Salvador Sanchez's domination of Wilfredo Gomez (who was above his best weight and partied too much) not count for much since Gomez got beat down by Nelson 3 years later, got a gift versus Rocky and then lost to Layne?

[eazy_mas]

Oh, this question is tooo easy. Its the NABF

in the news sometimes a guy win just the WBC and consider to be undispute if like that there isnt an undisput champ right now in any division and it wont be for long time if you have all the belts.

the numbers of belts sometimes makes it hard to give recongnition for the fighters instead of fighting for one thing you have many thing and some people wont see the other thing as much important as this one.

people say about SRR, Hagler and Hearns era it was easy because they where fighting for one belt that is recongize as undispute champ

[Run]

Oscar did a good job until the knockout came, and the fight was actually closer than most people expected. So Oscar moved north in weight, it doesn't change the fact that he's never been stopped and let alone with 1 punch.

The same Trinidad that lost to Hopkins was the same Trinidad that knocked Joppy out and gave him multiple facial fractures. Prior to the Tito fight Joppy had never been knocked out, and Tito demolished him. That right there is a sign that he carried his power and was virtually the same Trinidad, because he knocked out a full fledged middleweight with a good chin in impressive fashion.

Oh and I suppose Tito was just a blown up welterweight because he lost to Wright also? That's nonsense. Wright would have beat Trinidad at any weight, any place, any time. It's just a horrible style matchup like Hopkins was for Tito.

20 defenses....not 19, and it was the IBF title that eventually was unified and recognized as the Undisputed Middleweight Title. Echols, Allen, Holmes, Eastman, Joppy, Daniels, and Vanderpool were all staunch opposition and not necessarily great fighters.....but tough defenses nonetheless.

Let's also not forget Nard is the only person to have ever stopped Glen Johnson and that's some pretty impressive stuff.





Ok let me get this straight. Tarver was weight drained when Nard moved up to fight him, Tito and DLH were blown up when they moved up to fight Hopkins?


Yawn a fight is a fight, excuses excuses.



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[Hydro]

people say about SRR, Hagler and Hearns era it was easy because they where fighting for one belt that is recongize as undispute champ

That's not true. The alphabet madness is FAARR worse now, but they still had that then.

For most of Hagler's era at middleweight, there were two belts, the WBA and WBC. The IBF came around and made a name late in Hagler's career. Hearns also won a WBO belt in the mid to late 80s, as well as WBA and WBC belts. The IBF title was at stake during Hagler-Hearns's fight.

During the 40s through the 60s when SRR fought for titles, you had the NYSAC belt, NBA belt, to go along with The Ring belt.

[Guest]

Trinidad wasn't way above his best weight. You can argue over 147 or 154, but Tito was big for those weight classes regardless, and unlike DLH, had success at 160.

Tito had just destroyed the 2nd best middleweight in the world before Hopkins schooled him. DLH got a gift against the great Felix Sturm.

It's still an excellent win even if Wright dominated him 4 years later.

Does Salvador Sanchez's domination of Wilfredo Gomez (who was above his best weight and partied too much) not count for much since Gomez got beat down by Nelson 3 years later, got a gift versus Rocky and then lost to Layne?

The Trinidad win is a good win, I agree. The DLH win is meaningless, honestly. But I can't give Hopkins props because he never beat a natural top middleweight in his career. He wants to consider himself a great, but all he did was beat average fighters. He had two opportunities to establish his greatness against Roy Jones and against Taylor and he lost those fights. The win over Tarver was good, but everyone knows that if RJJ got to Tarver before Roy went to HW, Roy would have destroyed Tarver...

[Left2body]

in the news sometimes a guy win just the WBC and consider to be undispute if like that there isnt an undisput champ right now in any division and it wont be for long time if you have all the belts.

the numbers of belts sometimes makes it hard to give recongnition for the fighters instead of fighting for one thing you have many thing and some people wont see the other thing as much important as this one.

people say about SRR, Hagler and Hearns era it was easy because they where fighting for one belt that is recongize as undispute champ

I was just joking around about the NABF eazy_mas. My sentiments are similar to what Kay said.

[eazy_mas]

That's not true. The alphabet madness is FAARR worse now, but they still had that then.

For most of Hagler's era at middleweight, there were two belts, the WBA and WBC. The IBF came around and made a name late in Hagler's career. Hearns also won a WBO belt in the mid to late 80s, as well as WBA and WBC belts. The IBF title was at stake during Hagler-Hearns's fight.

During the 40s through the 60s when SRR fought for titles, you had the NYSAC belt, NBA belt, to go along with The Ring belt.

each title fight need some money to make it and promotoers and contract.

the one thing that screw boxing bad in the ass is these concile thing.

they should unite but now it looks like they are making more titles and some title are given without a fight instead of vacanted.

the value of the belt right now is who holds it and how do you get it. right now the person to beat at 147 is Cotto and Margarito. and in FW is Pac Guzman and in MW is Taylor and Winky

[Guest]

Oscar did a good job until the knockout came, and the fight was actually closer than most people expected. So Oscar moved north in weight, it doesn't change the fact that he's never been stopped and let alone with 1 punch.

The same Trinidad that lost to Hopkins was the same Trinidad that knocked Joppy out and gave him multiple facial fractures. Prior to the Tito fight Joppy had never been knocked out, and Tito demolished him. That right there is a sign that he carried his power and was virtually the same Trinidad, because he knocked out a full fledged middleweight with a good chin in impressive fashion.

Oh and I suppose Tito was just a blown up welterweight because he lost to Wright also? That's nonsense. Wright would have beat Trinidad at any weight, any place, any time. It's just a horrible style matchup like Hopkins was for Tito.

20 defenses....not 19, and it was the IBF title that eventually was unified and recognized as the Undisputed Middleweight Title. Echols, Allen, Holmes, Eastman, Joppy, Daniels, and Vanderpool were all staunch opposition and not necessarily great fighters.....but tough defenses nonetheless.

Let's also not forget Nard is the only person to have ever stopped Glen Johnson and that's some pretty impressive stuff.





Ok let me get this straight. Tarver was weight drained when Nard moved up to fight him, Tito and DLH were blown up when they moved up to fight Hopkins?


Yawn a fight is a fight, excuses excuses.

I like you Run/W, but often I get the impression that you don't want to DISCUSS, just state your own opinion (seeing it as fact). You seem to have a closed mind to any debate, and this IS a discussion forum.

Your first point about Oscar never having been stopped is EXACTLY the kind of point I'm making in the thread itself. Why is that a major achievement when he was outside his natural division? He'd never been stopped before, but he'd only had two fights as a middleweight, so how is it quantifiable?

I can't seriously believe you're rating a stoppage of Glen Johnson as a major achievement... both him and Tarver are HUGELY overrated due to stoppage wins of an extremely faded Roy. Johnson spent the last two rounds against Woods in their last fight holding on for dear life. If Woods had pressed and got the stoppage (not impossible) would that make Clinton Woods an ATG?

As for "yawn" (and the somewhat narrowminded insistence on "a fight is a fight") if you're not interested in engaging with the thread, then why post at all?

[Hydro]

the value of the belt right now is who holds it and how do you get it. right now the person to beat at 147 is Cotto and Margarito. and in FW is Pac Guzman and in MW is Taylor and Winky

The man to beat at 147 to be the champ is Mayweather (I doubt he stays at 154 or retires after Oscar).

Spinks was the champ, Stinks lost to Judah, Zab lost to Baldomir, Baldomir lost to Mayweather.

Cotto has beaten just one top 10 contender at 147, and even that was an up and comer in Quintana who barely cracked the top 10 in The Ring's ratings. Margarito has done a lot more at 147 than Cotto.

The Ring ain't perfect and they're self-serving, but at least they'll never rank a dead fighter.

The fighter with the best claim at 130 is Barrera. Morales had unified two belts, and was the closest thing to being THE champ at 130. Morales lost to MAB, and MAB hasn't lost since. MAB got dominated by Pacquiao, but that was at a different weight class. Pacquiao's big wins at 130 were over a guy that had already lost at 130 to Barrera.

[GEOFFHAYES]

I've only seen this Joppy in the Eastman and Hopkins fights and he really did not look very good. Eastman gave away the first six rounds by being a lazy bastard, then won the next six with ease, and Howard isn't a world-beater. Joppy just didn't show anything dynamic. And in the Hopkins fight, while it was a masterclass of inside fighting by Hopkins from what I remember, I don't remember Joppy even looking that competitive and I remember his face finished all swelled and ****ed.

Trinidad was a blown-up welterweight.