Top three statistical misrepresentations about Hopkins that irk me...

**Run** · 12-22-2006, 01:55 PM

Originally posted by !! Anorak

I like you Run/W, but often I get the impression that you don't want to DISCUSS, just state your own opinion (seeing it as fact). You seem to have a closed mind to any debate, and this IS a discussion forum.

9/10 of the threads you've been making are either hypothetical, or are centered around bitching about something. It's always the same "Yank this" "How come Yanks this". So it's no secret that you're simply masking your emotions which center around hating on any fighter that lives in the U.S.A.

Your first point about Oscar never having been stopped is EXACTLY the kind of point I'm making in the thread itself. Why is that a major achievement when he was outside his natural division? He'd never been stopped before, but he'd only had two fights as a middleweight, so how is it quantifiable?

Right so on the other hand....you write off Trinidad as a legitimate opponent even though he moved up outside of his natural division and knocked Joppy out. Nobody on earth would have made Bernard Hopkins a favorite to beat Trinidad going into that fight and you know it.

So it's just now that everyone is whining about Tito being a blown up welterweight when he was arguably the #1 P4P fighter in boxing.

I can't seriously believe you're rating a stoppage of Glen Johnson as a major achievement... both him and Tarver are HUGELY overrated due to stoppage wins of an extremely faded Roy. Johnson spent the last two rounds against Woods in their last fight holding on for dear life. If Woods had pressed and got the stoppage (not impossible) would that make Clinton Woods an ATG?

As we see now.....Johnson is how old? He's been through way too many ring wars, and I wasn't trying to imply that was an impressive victory in a historical sense. It's pretty impressive that he stopped a prime Johnson when nobody else has been able to do so.

As for "yawn" (and the somewhat narrowminded insistence on "a fight is a fight") if you're not interested in engaging with the thread, then why post at all?

Excuses, Excuses.

1. Ray fought 15 rounds in the heat

2. Oscar and Tito moved up

I don't want to keep naming them because they're useless and speculative.

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**oldgringo** · 12-22-2006, 01:57 PM

If we aren't calling Hopkins an "all-time great" middleweight because the two biggest names on his resume are Oscar and Trinidad, then lets go ahead and write Marvin Hagler off that list for having Tommy and Ray on his. See how strange that sounds? You know what one of Marvins next best performances was? His defense against a blown up light middleweight.

I'm pointing this out just to do it. I think Hagler and Hopkins are both top 5 middleweights, but I feel like it's unfair to give one praise for their very good blown up opponents while knocking the other for theirs.

Felix Trinidad was a legitimate opponent at 160...coming off absolutely crushing William Joppy. He was similar to the Tommy Hearns of his day.

Hopkins in his prime would terrorize any middleweight throughout history and would probably beat a good handful of the top guys. There isn't anything that he doesn't do well. Good power, educated jab, great chin, great ring smarts, physical strength, great stamina...and one of the most effective right hands in the business. He could pick you apart from range and he could rough you up on the inside (even until the point of utter madness[see echols 2]).

The guy was one hell of a fighter. Hall of famer for sure, all-time great in my book.

**kayjay** · 12-22-2006, 02:00 PM

Originally posted by RunW/Knives

9/10 of the threads you've been making are either hypothetical, or are centered around bitching about something. It's always the same "Yank this" "How come Yanks this". So it's no secret that you're simply masking your emotions which center around hating on any fighter that lives in the U.S.A.

I had been waiting for the perfect chance to make my last post before leaving for the holidays. Thanks RWK.

Anorak has been

**Guest** · 12-22-2006, 02:11 PM

Originally posted by RunW/Knives

9/10 of the threads you've been making are either hypothetical, or are centered around bitching about something. It's always the same "Yank this" "How come Yanks this". So it's no secret that you're simply masking your emotions which center around hating on any fighter that lives in the U.S.A.

I now fully UNDERSTAND why you think Bozo is a guy who "tells it the way it is"... you're just as full of **** as he is.

This thread has been inspired by thoughts raised by other threads, but the "US bash" is ENTIRELY in your head. I DO believe that US posters buy into hype around US fighters in SOME cases, but as I've already said that SRR is a great IN THIS ACTUAL THREAD I think that proves that you're talking ****ing bull****. If my location said "New York" you wouldn't even be saying this knee jerk bull**** to me.

Get this Run/W - this is A DISCUSSION FORUM. I'm not "bitching", I'm making FOOD FOR THOUGHT. Something to DISCUSS in this boxing-light month we're living in. The thought I'm giving to these threads and my responses are ten times more than you're giving your replies, which make it clear that you're not even reading (or COMPREHENDING) 90% of what I'm writing, and are filling in non-existent blanks with your implied agendas.

Right so on the other hand....you write off Trinidad as a legitimate opponent even though he moved up outside of his natural division and knocked Joppy out. Nobody on earth would have made Bernard Hopkins a favorite to beat Trinidad going into that fight and you know it.

So it's just now that everyone is whining about Tito being a blown up welterweight when he was arguably the #1 P4P fighter in boxing.

See, this is EXACTLY what I'm getting at. WHERE did I even MENTION Trinidad in this thread? I haven't mentioned him ONCE. So this is MEANINGLESS to a discussion between you and I.

As we see now.....Johnson is how old? He's been through way too many ring wars, and I wasn't trying to imply that was an impressive victory in a historical sense. It's pretty impressive that he stopped a prime Johnson when nobody else has been able to do so.

I'll give ya that one. Still don't think even a prime Johnson is all that though - in CONTEXT of what I'm talking about. Would Hagler, SRR, Monson, Greb et al have been able to stop a prime Johnson? DO YOU SEE THE POINT I'M MAKING?

Excuses, Excuses.

1. Ray fought 15 rounds in the heat

Hmmmmmm... you patently DON'T GET what I'm saying.

2. Oscar and Tito moved up

... never mentioned Tito....

I don't want to keep naming them because they're useless and speculative.

So why join in a thread then???

You either wanna take part in a dicussion or you DON'T.

**** the personal insults up your ass, either show me the respect as a poster I show you, or don't engage in a discussion in which you patently have no interest and just want to make a lot of veiled insults and generalisations due to my nationality.

**Run** · 12-22-2006, 02:12 PM

Originally posted by oldgringo

Felix Trinidad was a legitimate opponent at 160...coming off absolutely crushing William Joppy. He was similar to the Tommy Hearns of his day.

Yes.

I felt after watching Tito totally crush Joppy...there was no question that he could hurt someone at 160. That's a no brainer.

He was In my view as deadly at 160 at that time as he was at 147 when he stopped the washed up Sweet Pea.

Same punches, same Tito, same performance. And the Oscar that I saw fight Hopkins for the first few rounds was pretty much Oscar. No more no less.

It was Oscar De La Hoya fighting Bernard Hopkins.

I'm tired of it always being the Little guy v.s. the Big guy. That's really wierd, because if that's the case....then fights should never be made where a guy moves up in weight. Hopkins should have never moved up in weight to beat Antonio Tarver but he did and that's the end of story.

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**GEOFFHAYES** · 12-22-2006, 02:20 PM

Michael Nunn and Sumbu Kalambay of around '87 and '88 would out-box any version of Bernard every time, but then again either of them may of done it to any middleweight ever, at their best. Eubank and Herol Graham would make Bernard (or anybody for that matter) look bad, though Hopkins would soon out-work Eubank badly and catch up with Bomber fella. Mike McCallum would more than live with Hopkins, though Hopkins was probably a little better at almost everything. Roy Jones would always beat him. Marvin Hagler at his '77-'78 best has too much of everything for him and Carlos Monzon makes him his *****.

**eazy_mas** · 12-22-2006, 02:21 PM

There been successful going up in wieght one class or two but never going down in wieght.

you rarely see this thing happen in boxing

**Run** · 12-22-2006, 02:23 PM

Originally posted by !! Anorak

I now fully UNDERSTAND why you think Bozo is a guy who "tells it the way it is"... you're just as full of **** as he is.

This thread has been inspired by thoughts raised by other threads, but the "US bash" is ENTIRELY in your head. I DO believe that US posters buy into hype around US fighters in SOME cases, but as I've already said that SRR is a great IN THIS ACTUAL THREAD I think that proves that you're talking ****ing bull****. If my location said "New York" you wouldn't even be saying this knee jerk bull**** to me.

Get this Run/W - this is A DISCUSSION FORUM. I'm not "bitching", I'm making FOOD FOR THOUGHT. Something to DISCUSS in this boxing-light month we're living in. The thought I'm giving to these threads and my responses are ten times more than you're giving your replies, which make it clear that you're not even reading (or COMPREHENDING) 90% of what I'm writing, and are filling in non-existent blanks with your implied agendas.

No....It's called bitching, because you're a constant *****.

Sorry, but... Hopkins is absolutely pathetic. - Boxing Forum

http://www.boxingscene.com/forums/showthread.php?t=29215&highlight=bernard+hopkins