Willie Pep and Floyd Mayweather

[Brockton Lip]

Don't compare Pep to Floyd when deciding why one gets hated on and the other is loved. Different eras, different people, different stories.
And Pep fought back and fought hard many, many times. How can people forget the fights with Saddler? Mayweather would not have done that. Pep wanted to kick the **** out of him, he had the killer instinct when he fought Saddler. The 4 brutal fights with Saddler were post plane crash, after Pep's prime and he still put up one (four actually ) hell of a fight. He went toe to toe with Saddler in most of their encounters, and yes Saddler has more KO's than any Featherweight in history, and Pep showed the heart of a true champion and fighter.
Pep had the true heart of a champion. Floyd is a great fighter, but Pep just had that extra something...not to mention better skills.

[ferocity]

Lets just put it this way. Pep was a great fighter. Mayweather if fighting to become a greater fighter, his next step will be Delahoya.

[oldgringo]

I think its valid to parallel these two cases. I'm not much of a Floyd fan, but it's almost crazy to say that he's "not on Pep's level" as far as skill goes. The man is insanely skilled, both tangibly and intangibly. He has fought several very good fighters and has accomplished A LOT in his career.

Pep acknowledged that the best way to fight was to hit and not get hit...and he wanted to make some loot on the side. The times have changed now so he didn't have the luxury of fighting 3 times a year to make his millions. He had to bankroll himself by fighting a TON, against some great competition and he was successful at that.

Since the times have changed, I think mute was just trying to say that Floyd doesn't deserve NEARLY as much criticism as he receives, as opposed to making an attempt to discredit Pep. I have criticized Floyd in the past, but the man just SHUT OUT the recognized Welterweight champion of the world and will most likely fight Oscar in 2007. Let's just see how the rest of his career goes.

[Kid Achilles]

"Skill" means nothing alone because it's all relative to competition. You put Teddy Atlas, a guy with a few amateur fights, in the ring with a ******ed person and he'd look like an all time great. Just because Mayweather looks great doesn't mean he is great.

[DiegoFuego]

The average contender back then was about as good as a title holder these days. In Pep's day, the top 20 in a given division (except for heavyweight) were a tough bunch and could give the champion a run for his money, beat him on an off night. And not like how it is with the heavyweights today with no one caring or showing up in shape. It's just that the level of skill was so high, the fighters so sharp and experienced by the time they got to that level, that this was true.

James Toney is hands down the most skilled guy (as in the deepest skillset) in the sport today IMO. Put him in Pep's era and there would be a handful of guys alive who could match him in skill and some (like Pep) who exceeded him.

The sport was just plain better, to put it succintly. More participants, better prepared and more skilled fighters, the living was tougher and the food they ate wasn't processed like it is today. Fighting is the one sport that has actually GOTTEN WORSE since the 1980's. Even the 1980's were on the decline compared to the 60's 50's and 40's IMO. This is what I see with my eyes. I see better and stronger athletes, on average, but much, much worse fighters. Mentally those guys just kick the **** out of today's fighters and boxing is 80% mental.

how the hell can you make a generalization like that? do you just not like the fighters today?

[Kid Achilles]

For the reasons I mentioned. More participants in the pro ranks, deeper talent pool. Skill level highrt. Fighters had to be mentally tougher and fight more often on average.

[oldgringo]

"Skill" means nothing alone because it's all relative to competition. You put Teddy Atlas, a guy with a few amateur fights, in the ring with a ******ed person and he'd look like an all time great. Just because Mayweather looks great doesn't mean he is great.

Why even make an assinine comparison like that? The point of the thread was to parallel similar comments that both fighters made at one point in their lives...and to play devils advocate as to why Floyd receives heavy criticism in a situation where Pep does not.

I'm not familiar with the quote from Pep...and I do not know the exact context of the quote or where abouts in his career he stated that.

Mayweather has fought very good fighters and has beaten most of them quite decisively. Castillo, Corrales, HErnandez, Chavez, Hernandez, Gerena, Judah, and now Baldomir. More than 10 former or current champions on that list. He's a great great fighter, lets be honest.

[DiegoFuego]

For the reasons I mentioned. More participants in the pro ranks, deeper talent pool. Skill level highrt. Fighters had to be mentally tougher and fight more often on average.

so fighters have de-evolved?

[Kid Achilles]

No, they've evolved to fit their ****tier pampered era. Evolution does not mean to improve, it means to adapt to fit one's surroundings. The animals alive today are not "better" than the ones that became extinct, they are just better at surviving in this new world.

[Mishra100]

Don't compare Pep to Floyd when deciding why one gets hated on and the other is loved. Different eras, different people, different stories.
And Pep fought back and fought hard many, many times. How can people forget the fights with Saddler? Mayweather would not have done that. Pep wanted to kick the **** out of him, he had the killer instinct when he fought Saddler. The 4 brutal fights with Saddler were post plane crash, after Pep's prime and he still put up one (four actually ) hell of a fight. He went toe to toe with Saddler in most of their encounters, and yes Saddler has more KO's than any Featherweight in history, and Pep showed the heart of a true champion and fighter.
Pep had the true heart of a champion. Floyd is a great fighter, but Pep just had that extra something...not to mention better skills.

Good point... This is an endless argument against a bunch of young boxing fan vs old boxing fans and one NO ONE will agree on...