Hopkins: "I Won't Let Calzaghe Make History"

[Jcsuper]

Jones-Hopkins gets blown out of proportion by just about everybody. Both fighters were green at the time; and the bout was as dull as dishwater. Neither fighter dominated; but Roy did enough to win. That fight didn't make or break either man and is only impressive in retrospect, considering what each did afterwards. Roy was flashy, Bernard was not, so Roy's got the better rep; but in reality,they're both about on par with each other. Roy opted to collect belts and Bernard opted to make a record number of defenses. Bernard's competition wasn't superb because the middleweight division wasn't superb during his reign; but he beat 'em all. Roy, on the other hand, moved from middleweight up to heavyweight and had ample opportunity to fight quality fighters; but usually didn't.

Bernard unified the middleweight division and was an underdog, wrongfully so, to do so. Everybody was pushing "Tito" to be the legend, and Bernard ended up kicking his ass in primetime in a humiliating fashion. Hops also beat Holmes and Joppy and the best challengers the division could offer. I don't put too much stock in his win over De La Hoya because Oscar was such a small fighter comparitively. The Taylor fights speak more of Hopkins than they do Taylor, though, because Hopkins was an old man and held the young stud from dominating, whereas Jermain didn't establish himself at all. (I had Taylor winning the first and drawing in the second.)

Jones, after Hopkins, made one defense of his title; but it was against a quality foe, Thomas Tate, who had gone 12 full rounds with kayo artist Julian Jackson, the WBC Middleweight title-holder. Then Jones faced the #1 or #2 p4p fighter in the world, who was in his prime, James Toney, and took him to school.....damn fight looked like a sparring session; and I was/am a huge James Toney fan. At the time Toney was the man as far as I was concerned, and this showboat gave him a boxing lesson. Foks, that's impression....weight problems or no. After Toney, Roy had a so-so career as a SMW, never fighting Nigel Benn or Chris Eubank, or Micael Nunn....all three of whom were top shelf. He beat Mike McCallum for the "interim" WBC Light Heavyweight title.....McCallum was an old man who had lost the WBC title to Fabrice Tiozzo nearly a year before. Virgil Hill had unified the WBA and IBF belts when he beat Henry Maske; and preceded to lose it via decision to the WBO titleholder, Dariusz Michalczewski.....making DM the rightful "real" Light-Heavyweight Champion of the World. Did Roy ever fight him? No; but he did knock out Virgil Hill in "Quicksilver's" very next fight. Does that meant anything? No. One fight too late. Then, at heavyweight, to make "history", Roy challenged the least respected titlist, John Ruiz, instead of the "real heavyweight champion of the world", Lennox Lewis.

So, you be the judge as to who is more deserving of praise.

I agree that both were green during the fight, but my point was that Jones never wanted anymore of BHop after the fight, and the guys lost all the last rounds.

if Jones was too green but has ameliorated his style after, why did he never give Bernard a rematch?

Your post was pretty good, but it doesn't tell us your opinion, you just write some facts.
What do you think about that ?

[Castillofan]

This paragraph made me laugh. Tito and ODLH might've been moving up in weight but comared to.... Lacy? This makes me giggle.

I would love this match and be one of the few PPV's each year I buy but this would be a must. I'd favor Hopkins but hardly think it would be a walk in the park.

Glad I can keep you entertained. I wasn't trying to compare Lacy to ODLH or Trinidad; just saying that Hopkins and Calzaghe sat on their mandatories until other fighters stepped to them. Unless Lacy had forced the issue, we wouldn't be talking about the great Calzaghe, just how we assume how good he is, but really, it's not been proven against the best in the world or another top champion in his prime.

[Castillofan]

Y'all Musta Forgot about Jones, Eastman, Allen, Glen Johnson, Syd Vanderpool, Antwun Echols, John David Jackson, Segundo Mercado. I could go on, but I have no idea where the "first good fighter" even came from. Just about everyone had Hopkins winning the first fight and the second fight barely had any action at all. A young undefeated Olympian that was being built as the next star was barely able to beat an old 40-year-old fighter.

To quote the greatest trainer of all time, which of course is Mickey Goldmill, "They was good fighters, but they wasn't killers!"

And Hopkins didn't even start fighting until the 8th of the first Taylor fight; he'd have needed a knockout to get a draw.

That was the night that boxing actually showed a "legend" that nobody can go out and bull**** their way through it and have that be enough to win.

[K-DOGG]

I agree that both were green during the fight, but my point was that Jones never wanted anymore of BHop after the fight, and the guys lost all the last rounds.

if Jones was too green but has ameliorated his style after, why did he never give Bernard a rematch?

Your post was pretty good, but it doesn't tell us your opinion, you just write some facts.
What do you think about that ?

Why do I think there was never a rematch? A variety of reasons, truthfully.

The best time for a rematch would have been in 2002 right after B-Hop stopped Trinidad; and from what I understand it was there......and B-Hop priced himself out of contention, or Roy wanted too much money...whichever way you look at it. Knowing about both fighters what I do, I'd say it's a little of both. Bernard is an incredibly difficult negotiator and probably did price himself too high while Jones has the biggest ego on the planet and wouldn't have given in to Bernard wanting more money.

I don't feel neither was afraid of the other; but due to the weaknesses in their respective personalities, the fight never happened. Roy went on to "bigger paydays" at heavyweight against Ruiz two fights later, and Hopkins fought Carl Daniels and some slag named Morrade Hakkar. It was both of their faults.

As far as who would have won had they met in 2002, I'd favour Jones at 175, though a Hopkins upset wouldn't have been out of the question.

[Kid Achilles]

I think Calzaghe would be too much for Hopkins at this point. He'd pressure him early, knowing that Hopkins takes time to warm up, and win those early rounds by a landslide. Calzaghe is just too quick and heavy handed for the old master. Calzaghe by decision or he may even be the first person to stop the Executioner.

[Dirt E Gomez]

This whole thread makes me giggle. People are talking about Hopkins' record while completely ignoring Zag's.... If I had to compare resumes I'd put mine on B-Hop's everytime; even with the losses.

It's a toss up that I might favor B-Hop in... but that might just be because I'd want him to win so much more.

[Castillofan]

Why do I think there was never a rematch? A variety of reasons, truthfully.

The best time for a rematch would have been in 2002 right after B-Hop stopped Trinidad; and from what I understand it was there......and B-Hop priced himself out of contention, or Roy wanted too much money...whichever way you look at it. Knowing about both fighters what I do, I'd say it's a little of both. Bernard is an incredibly difficult negotiator and probably did price himself too high while Jones has the biggest ego on the planet and wouldn't have given in to Bernard wanting more money.

I don't feel neither was afraid of the other; but due to the weaknesses in their respective personalities, the fight never happened. Roy went on to "bigger paydays" at heavyweight against Ruiz two fights later, and Hopkins fought Carl Daniels and some slag named Morrade Hakkar. It was both of their faults.

As far as who would have won had they met in 2002, I'd favour Jones at 175, though a Hopkins upset wouldn't have been out of the question.

"Some slag named Morrade Hakkar" - Hahahahaha

If you remember, the vibe was that if Trinidad could beat Hopkins, Jones was next. I think that was what was so shocking about the way Trinidad was almost shut out in that fight: people believed he could beat anyone at that point; what he was doing felt like a phenomenon.

I remember thinking that Jones would have had an easier time with Hopkins. People didn't really see the point of that fight back then, but the way things ended up for them both, perhaps it was wrong to assume that their rematch wouldn't have meant much.

[deuce_drop]

No one was scared of Hopkins. It's just that middleweight was average while he was champion. Taylor stepped up to him and beat Hopkins with his amateur style and absolutely no experience. Taylor happens to be the first good fighter he fought that was a true middleweight...

taylor was given a gift against hopkins in their first fight, c'mon, there is no way taylor took the belt from the long time champ, undefeated in 11-12 years and 20 defenses, and taylor doesn't even land one significant punch and he wins on the cards for getting hit and missing the whole fight, that was totall bull****, it was more like Hopkins verses HBO, Taylor, and the System......................

the second fight was closer but Taylor and Hopkins at best fought to a draw, nothing happend there either......................

Hopkins verses Joe Calzaghe i think would be a great fight, with calzaghe's active style and Hopkins sniper style, both these guys would be forced to fight due to the clash of styles. what i like about this fight is that both fighters have a great skill at getting their opponents to fight their fight, now the question is which one will get the other to fight their fight? it's hard to say which one will get the other guy to fight his fight because both are extremely disciplined and extremely determined to fight their way.

personally i think Hopkins is a littel stronger minded than Joe and a little more focused, because Hopkins never plays down to his level of competition, Joe does, Hopkins takes everyone seriously, Joe likes to **** around if he doesn't take the guy he's fighting seriously. just look at Calzaghe's last fight, he could've done more to stop Bika when he had him reeling but he didn't he took his foot of the gas and let Bika make a fight out of it, instead of beating the piss out of him like he did Lacy. he did the same thing against Ashira. Joe fights better when there is a serious threat, that's why i know that fighting Hopkins he'll bring his A-game, but so will Hopkins.

this is a really good fight and i think whoever does the most work wins, this is a grind it out kind of fight. i like it, both guys love to throw punches whenever they're available. hopkins loves to punch in the clinch and same with calzaghe.

i think that power, activity, and game plan are the key factors in this fight between calzaghe and hopkins. power and game plan is on hopkins side and activity is on calzaghes side.


no need to mention stamina and conditioning, because both hopkins and calzaghe are always in tip top shape. that's what i admire about both fighters is that they're always in shape and you never have to worry about them gasing...........

i'm picking Hopkins to eek out a decision win over Calzaghe...........

[Abe Attell]

No one was scared of Hopkins. It's just that middleweight was average while he was champion. Taylor stepped up to him and beat Hopkins with his amateur style and absolutely no experience. Taylor happens to be the first good fighter he fought that was a true middleweight...

If you didn't watch any fights from Hopkins prior to Tito, that is your fault, not his...Fighters decline with age, even Hopkins...Just because the guy kept winning doesn't mean he was still in his prime...all you have to do is compare his fights after Tito with the ones prior, and you will see.

Taylor is a bit amatuerish, which is all the proof you need that Hopkins had declined...if this was years ago, Taylor wouldn't have won, and probably have been knocked out, at least in the first fight.

You have to consider also Hopkins stubborn attitude towards not moving up when he should of...your body matures as you age, even into your 30's, your body can thicken...there is a reason Hopkins wasn't eating red-meat.
I am not sure how vegan he was, but if you get rid of meat in your diet, you will also be weaker.


For the fight with Joe, the fight would of been great maybe 5+ years ago...now, if Joe loses, I would actually say he is overrated.

Also, for Hopkins to fight at Heavyweight, if he fights Oleg and wins, he better be a man and fight the rest, like WLAD or don't call yourself the Heavyweight Champion.

[Abe Attell]

The only good fighter that could make Hopkins a legit legend is Roy Jones and he lost that fight. The rest of those guys are decent-to-good fighters, but not the type of guys you beat to call yourself a legend...

Yes, I made a thread about how Roy should be higher on the ranks than Hopkins because he beat Hopkins, and supposedly he had a bad right hand while doing it.

But, we are talking about Roy Jones Jr. in his prime, he was a freak in those days.