Why Americans slag off calzaghe?

[kayjay]

[QUOTE=kayjay;1941730][QUOTE=Rockin';1941723]

Rockin, c'mon I was not say I expect this, but rather I used the first person 'we' in order to implicate us all. You admit that the stereotype exists in our country, and Anorak was only pointing that out to us. I was admitting it, regrettably, as part of the American way of thinking. If you don't see color then that's good for you, but we're talking here about public perception, and race is certainly relevant since most people do not see it like you.

And regarding my own "athletic aspirations" I resent that you made it a personal attack. I was commenting only on the mentality of the public. I never backed down from anyone personally. But I'll admit that I always gave it a bit extra in pickup basketball games in black neighborhoods because I felt like I had something to prove. If you never felt that way, then you've been bigger than I.

[Rockin']

You'd better wear your best aftershave, that's all I can say.

Ill be sure to put a touch under my sac fer ya! Were some sick MOFOS man LMAO....................Rockin'

[kayjay]

[QUOTE=!! Anorak;1941734][QUOTE=kayjay;1941730]

Strangely enough, I think it might be the opposite over here... I'm sure the UK public would love white boxers, and though we're probably doing better in that regard than we've ever done, our most successful boxers have been black.

Lennox Lewis... Chris Eubank... and, of course, Daniel Williams.

Well in the UK perhaps there is not the same sense of historical injustice complicating racial sentiments. In America things are even more complicated by the fact that the subject is taboo and so very few people will feel empowered to speak honestly on the matter.

[Rockin']

[QUOTE=kayjay;1941730][QUOTE=Rockin';1941723]

Rockin, c'mon I was not say I expect this, but rather I used the first person 'we' in order to implicate us all. You admit that the stereotype exists in our country, and Anorak was only pointing that out to us. I was admitting it, regrettably, as part of the American way of thinking. If you don't see color then that's good for you, but we're talking here about public perception, and race is certainly relevant since most people do not see it like you.

All that I can say is that Ive seen Blacks that could fight and those that couldnt fight one bit. Ive seen the same with whites and all of the other races roaming the planet. It comes down to the individual and what they have inside.

If the american youth views color as the barometer of talent then they will fall well short themselves.

In the 40's and 50's the ***s and Italians had a mess of great fighters rolling at the top of the game. Now would you have said that ***s and Italians are superior fighters because of their race? Now the blacks seem to be doing great in the latest years. Does this mean that the race has superior fighters because of the race or genes? I would say not. It is a fact if you look through the history of the game that the top fighters of any generation were the same people that were occupying the ******s at the time. Hard times bring up hard people and thats a must to step in a throw fists, you gotta be hard. ..............Rockin'

[kayjay]

[QUOTE=Rockin';1941747][QUOTE=kayjay;1941730]

All that I can say is that Ive seen Blacks that could fight and those that couldnt fight one bit. Ive seen the same with whites and all of the other races roaming the planet. It comes down to the individual and what they have inside.

If the american youth views color as the barometer of talent then they will fall well short themselves.

In the 40's and 50's the ***s and Italians had a mess of great fighters rolling at the top of the game. Now would you have said that ***s and Italians are superior fighters because of their race? Now the blacks seem to be doing great in the latest years. Does this mean that the race has superior fighters because of the race or genes? I would say not. It is a fact if you look through the history of the game that the top fighters of any generation were the same people that were occupying the ******s at the time. Hard times bring up hard people and thats a must to step in a throw fists, you gotta be hard. ..............Rockin'

All very well said.
And you're right to claim that race-expectations can be a handicap. They are and they have been. But for that matter they are not asny the less real. This opens a completely different set of questions than the one this thread handled.

[Guest]

All that I can say is that Ive seen Blacks that could fight and those that couldnt fight one bit. Ive seen the same with whites and all of the other races roaming the planet. It comes down to the individual and what they have inside.

If the american youth views color as the barometer of talent then they will fall well short themselves.

In the 40's and 50's the ***s and Italians had a mess of great fighters rolling at the top of the game. Now would you have said that ***s and Italians are superior fighters because of their race? Now the blacks seem to be doing great in the latest years. Does this mean that the race has superior fighters because of the race or genes? I would say not. It is a fact if you look through the history of the game that the top fighters of any generation were the same people that were occupying the ******s at the time. Hard times bring up hard people and thats a must to step in a throw fists, you gotta be hard. ..............Rockin'

1. Again Rockin', we're talking about the PERCEPTION, rather than the reality. When I say that people on here don't like Joe Blow cos he ain't black, I ain't talking about you or me, I'm talking about punk ass kids who think "pwn" is a tool for debate.

2. ***s - they're good at keeping their pay packet.

3. Italians - back to the thread in hand. Because The Blow family are of direct Italian descent of course.

[Shanus]

On the subject of race brought into boxing, when was the last white P4P#1 fighter?

Now I know the P4P list is a list based on opinion and you can have whoever wherever you want etc etc, but let's look at ring magazine, who most people follow religiously with their P4P lists.. when was the last P4P#1 WHITE fighter?

The first name that comes to mind is Willy Pep, but even he was overshadowed by the great Ray Robinson, now look at the #1 P4P fighters of recent years, PBF, Hopkins, RJJ, Pernell Whittaker, not one white fighter.

I'm not suggesting anything, nor do I actually believe that black fighters are better than white fighters, nobody can call that, but I just thought I'd point it out.

[Rockin']

1. Again Rockin', we're talking about the PERCEPTION, rather than the reality. When I say that people on here don't like Joe Blow cos he ain't black, I ain't talking about you or me, I'm talking about punk ass kids who think "pwn" is a tool for debate.

2. ***s - they're good at keeping their pay packet.

3. Italians - back to the thread in hand. Because The Blow family are of direct Italian descent of course.

I wuv U!...................Rockin'

[K-DOGG]

I think the gist of the "Black thing" has about played itself out. After Jackie Robinson was allowed to compete in the majors, a whole slew of talented Black athletes followed. At first, they had to be the best of the best, so as to open the door for other Black athletes. The next thing you know, the majority of ball players were Black. Why? Was this because Blacks were superior to Whites? No. It was because sports were about the only way for poor Blacks to escape the poverty that most Blacks grew up in at that time.

Also, those who were trying to tear down the color bar were not going to put less than excellent Black ball players in the majors because that would give the biggots an excuse to not allow any more to follow...."See, the negro doesn't have the capacity to compete with our superior White athletes" or some such nonsense, and the door would have slammed shut.

The result was all these great Black athletes in baseball, football, basketball, and boxing. As Black youths grow up, when they want to see Black role models, what to they see? That's right, Black athletes on TV, making all this money and receiving all this acclaim. So, what was the predominant dream of these young Blacks? To follow in their heroes' footsteps and pursue an athletic career rather than to work in an office or whatever.

What about White youth? Proportionally, more Whites have gradually crossed the poverty line and are either middle or upper class financially; and their parents are not pushing them to be athletes. Further more, they have a whole variety of role models who are not athletically based. To use a line from "Rocky" issued by Apollo Creed, "Stay away from sports...spots make you grunt and smell. Be a thinker, not a stinker." When I was in jr. high, I wanted to play football; but my dad was adamently opposed to it. Why? He wanted me to focus on my education becasue the odds of me succeeding were greater than in the sports world, regardless of what color I was.

Another angle to think about, or rather echoing what I've been saying so far, is that atletes or would be athletes follow along the financial lines. The poor fight, the rich pay to watch them beat each other's brains out. Those who have usually don't compete because they have other paths that are easier that they can follow, whereas those without do what they must and will usually use their body rather than their brains. This is not saying athletes aren't intelligent; I am mererly saying this is the nature of things. The poor work by the sweat of their brow where those with money don't have to and therefore, usually don't. It has always been this way.

As Rockin' alluded to earlier in the early days of the last century, the best fighteres were ***ish, Italian, and Irish......guess where they placed in the financial food chain. These days as more and more Blacks escape the projects and enter into the world of the middle and upper class, you will notice fewer and fewer Black athletes. Or, as a friend of mine once put it, for every Black fighter out there, there's a Latino waiting to kick his ass.

Guess why. Financial status. It is a cycle as old as man.

[Rockin']

Guess why. Financial status. It is a cycle as old as man.

Exactly!!!!...................Rockin'